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Let's talk about IP"L"


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#1 johnpreuss

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 07:04 PM

Wow, I must say we have taken quite the Lager swing on the board lately and there is definately some room here for some discussion, especially on this "new" style.  I've been doing some reading about Imperial Pale Lagers and many commercial brewers are saying it's a similar grain bill to an IPA but they are shooting for around 45 IBU with the same late additions as an IPA.  I don't know that I'm looking to build a recipe here but maybe this could be the next group brew.  Hmm...

 

I'm almost thinking that ideally you'd shoot for something like this:

 

90 % 2 Row / American Pilsner Malt

5 % Vienna/Munich

3 % Light Crystal >40L

2 % Dextrine Malt

 

Bitter with 25 IBU of a clean hop

20 IBU late additions

Whirlpool/dry hop the hell out of it

 

OG: 1.055-65

IBU: 45

 

Yeast choices?!?  I'm not an expert here, 2124/830/W34/70 or would you go American or Mexican Lager Yeasts?

 

Let's talk about this! 

 

GO!!



#2 neddles

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 07:36 PM

Way to get it started. I'll touch this one. You may have read this already John but I'll link it for everyone else to see. https://beerandwinej...dia-pale-lager/

 

He has some interesting tidbits regarding yeast choice.

 

 

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:13px;]Look for strains that are commonly used in more hop-focused lager styles, such as German Pilsner or classic American Pilsner. You may also want to increase the amount of bittering hops you use. And finally, be sure not to pitch too much yeast. Use a pitching rate calculator and perhaps even slightly underpitch (adding, say, three-fourths the optimal cell count).[/color]

Also, according to the author, you may want to add more IBU's to it and not less because of the increased cell count and variability of different yeasts in their ability to remove bitterness during fermentation.

 

I like the grain bill you have there.

 

As far as a group brew of it. I am in. I just have to get several other brews out of the way first.

 

ETA: There's a couple of good tidbits in the comments section too.


Edited by ettels4, 19 April 2014 - 07:39 PM.


#3 johnpreuss

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 07:52 PM

Good Read there ettels4.  What did I take from it -

Kräusening

There is a great concept - dry hop the wort you will krausen with and pitch it later.  Hmmm... more ideas.  This could get fun.



#4 neddles

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 08:02 PM

Good Read there ettels4.  What did I take from it -

Kräusening

There is a great concept - dry hop the wort you will krausen with and pitch it later.  Hmmm... more ideas.  This could get fun.

Yeah I thought that was a cool idea too.



#5 Brauer

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:58 AM

I think you have a few ways to go with the recipe.  One would be no Crystal, perhaps with a little Carafoam or 10L, or to go with a more typical Pale Ale recipe with Pils substituted for Pale Ale Malt, like you've posted.  Most of the ones I've had have been more like the former; crisp and dry and clean, as a frame for a big hop flavor.

Yeast choices?!?  I'm not an expert here, 2124/830/W34/70 or would you go American or Mexican Lager Yeasts?

American Lager, I'd just stay away from.  Mexican would be fine, but I'd say anything in the 2124/830/W34/70 family would be a good choice, especially if you like West Coast- or Vermont-style IPAs.  A lot of yeasts would work, though. There's a nice one based on a normal Bock recipe that would be good with 833. That yeast might be a nice choice if you prefer a richer IPA, like Lagunitus. The "Bock" is probably all or mostly Munich.  It comes across like a hoppy Pale Ale.

 

I never make these, since Jack's Abby is just a few miles away and I get it fresh from them. So, I can't claim any experience with making the style, just drinking a lot of it.  It's virtually the only "IPA" I drink.



#6 HVB

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:10 AM

[quote name="Brauer" I never make these, since Jack's Abby is just a few miles away and I get it fresh from them. So, I can't claim any experience with making the style, just drinking a lot of it. It's virtually the only "IPA" I drink.[/quote]They do such a good job. It is my goto hoppy beer.

#7 denny

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:57 AM

I have to admit that I've only tried it once, but I really couldn't tell any difference between an IPL made with WY2124 and an IPA made with 1056 at 58-60F.  So, what am I missing?  What does the lager yeast bring besides the ability to say "I did it this way"?


Edited by denny, 20 April 2014 - 09:57 AM.


#8 Brauer

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:18 AM

I have to admit that I've only tried it once, but I really couldn't tell any difference between an IPL made with WY2124 and an IPA made with 1056 at 58-60F. So, what am I missing? What does the lager yeast bring besides the ability to say "I did it this way"?

I'd say that the biggest effect is on hop flavor, which is very forward, crisp and clear.

#9 positiveContact

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:28 AM

sounds like i should try some of this jack's abbey IPL.



#10 HVB

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:16 AM

sounds like i should try some of this jack's abbey IPL.

Yes.... Hopious Union, Kiwi Rising, Mass Rising are very good.  Copper Legend is their Oktoberfest and very nice.  Smoke and dagger is one of my favorite beers.



#11 johnpreuss

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:30 AM

I'd say that the biggest effect is on hop flavor, which is very forward, crisp and clear.

 

I thought someone had mentioned the benefits of cold conditioning hoppy beers whether it be an IPA or a lager.  I don't remember the thread though.  I could have swore it was BlKtRe that  was talking about it but I could be wrong.



#12 MyaCullen

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:39 AM

I thought someone had mentioned the benefits of cold conditioning hoppy beers whether it be an IPA or a lager.  I don't remember the thread though.  I could have swore it was BlKtRe that  was talking about it but I could be wrong.

yes, blktre among others



#13 denny

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:26 AM

I'd say that the biggest effect is on hop flavor, which is very forward, crisp and clear.

 

But so are the ales I make.  I'm not saying that I find anything wrong with an IPL.  Just that I haven't seem any difference from an IPA.


Edited by denny, 21 April 2014 - 08:26 AM.


#14 Brauer

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:06 AM

But so are the ales I make. I'm not saying that I find anything wrong with an IPL. Just that I haven't seem any difference from an IPA.

I'm sure that it is only an incremental change from a very clean, dry ale. It would be cool to have otherwise identical IPA/Ls, side-by-side, but I haven't had that opportunity.I'd Like to think I wouldn't have much trouble telling a Pilsner from a pseudo-pilsner made with American ale yeast.... based on my lame attempts at making lager-like beers with that yeast. Knowing that I usually avoid the Chico yeast, because it's too clean for the kind of ales I like to make, might mean I'd be more easily fooled than I'd like to think.I've had a couple excellent Cream Ales that Cambridge Brewing Co. made with that yeast that were darn close to a Pilsner. I knew ahead of time that they were ales, though, so I can't trust my judgement.

#15 johnpreuss

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:29 AM

I'm sure that it is only an incremental change from a very clean, dry ale. It would be cool to have otherwise identical IPA/Ls, side-by-side, but I haven't had that opportunity.I'd Like to think I wouldn't have much trouble telling a Pilsner from a pseudo-pilsner made with American ale yeast.... based on my lame attempts at making lager-like beers with that yeast. Knowing that I usually avoid the Chico yeast, because it's too clean for the kind of ales I like to make, might mean I'd be more easily fooled than I'd like to think.I've had a couple excellent Cream Ales that Cambridge Brewing Co. made with that yeast that were darn close to a Pilsner. I knew ahead of time that they were ales, though, so I can't trust my judgement.

 

 

I had another reason for starting this thread and that was I am unable to ferment at lager temps more than 6 gallons at a time, however I can ferment as much ale as I have fermenters.  That being said, I was thinking I could brew a IPL and what would be a hoppy APA (I'm assuming IBUs between 45 and 50 with heavy late/dry hopping) from the a 12 gallon batch but ferment 6 gallons with say W34/70 and the other half with S-05.  Just my mind wandering around thinking about lagers and pale ales being my favorite styles.




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