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Horrible Efficiency


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#1 codemonkey

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 04:47 PM

I always had low efficiency in the past and now that I'm getting back into brewing I'd like to address this. Today's mash was 10 lbs of Rahr 2-row and 10 lbs of Rahr wheat. 5 gallons pre-boil clocked in at 1.073, which according to the web calculators is something like 48% efficiency. Yikes!

 

I batch sparge with one of those blue igloo ice cubes with SS braid. My first infusion was 6.25 gallons - 1.25 qt/lb. I mashed for 90 mins and the iodine test was clear. First wort was 3 gallons at 1.079. The second batch was 2 gallons for a total of 5 gallons in the kettle.

 

My pH seems a bit high. My strike water was 6.49. After 15 mins, the mash pH was 5.90 @ 32.8 dC, which I think means I was still about 0.4 points high at mash temp.

 

I don't expect to be able to get 80% with beers this big, but surely I should be able to get closer to 60%, no? What about a pro brewery, how do they get good efficiency with big beers?



#2 MyaCullen

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 05:44 PM

I always had low efficiency in the past and now that I'm getting back into brewing I'd like to address this. Today's mash was 10 lbs of Rahr 2-row and 10 lbs of Rahr wheat. 5 gallons pre-boil clocked in at 1.073, which according to the web calculators is something like 48% efficiency. Yikes!

 

I batch sparge with one of those blue igloo ice cubes with SS braid. My first infusion was 6.25 gallons - 1.25 qt/lb. I mashed for 90 mins and the iodine test was clear. First wort was 3 gallons at 1.079. The second batch was 2 gallons for a total of 5 gallons in the kettle.

 

My pH seems a bit high. My strike water was 6.49. After 15 mins, the mash pH was 5.90 @ 32.8 dC, which I think means I was still about 0.4 points high at mash temp.

 

I don't expect to be able to get 80% with beers this big, but surely I should be able to get closer to 60%, no? What about a pro brewery, how do they get good efficiency with big beers?

damn, that really is low

 

I use the same setup, and for 5 gallons pre boil with that grain bill I would expect about 1.095 ish, who crushed your grain?

 

edit to add, for bigger beers, I usually have a larger runoff volume and a longer boil


Edited by miccullen, 12 April 2014 - 05:48 PM.


#3 johnpreuss

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 06:01 PM

I would definately look at the crush. I do all the same things and would expect atleast 75%.


Edited by johnpreuss, 12 April 2014 - 06:02 PM.


#4 neddles

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 06:41 PM

+1 on the crush.

 

High pH of 5.9 is not likely to hurt your efficiency but it will cause flavor issues for sure. Ask me how I know.



#5 codemonkey

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 06:42 PM

Forgot to mention the crush. I have a crankandstein 3 roller, the one that's not as easy to adjust. I don't know how to accurately measure the gap, but I played around with it and a feeler guage a few weekends ago. When I first started grinding today flour was coming out, so I eased off a bit. I don't have much to compare it too, but it's definitely more pulverized that what I'd get from the LHBS.



#6 johnpreuss

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 07:05 PM

ok crush doesn't sound like the issue.  Hmm..  Did you hit your volumes?



#7 dmtaylor

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 07:06 PM

I drafted a nice long response in Word but this friggin website doesn't allow me to cut & paste.  Fine.  So I made a .jpg and it's linked here, gosh I hope this works...

 

Posted Image



#8 codemonkey

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 08:13 PM

Appreciate the feedback. I'll go with a finer crush and see if that helps. Would hate to end up with a stuck sparge but it's worth the risk if that's my culprit. I also like your idea of equal runnings and I'll try that as well. I'm not too worried about pH as I can always bring that down. I didn't do any water adjustments this time as I wanted to have a baseline first. 



#9 Brauer

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 04:20 AM

You may have a lautering problem, if you have a large dead volume. What's the dead volume in your tun? Put some water in the empty tun, let it drain and see what's left.  

 

You should be able to get near flour from a 3-roller and still have good husks, if the gap is a little wide at the top and tight at the bottom.  I crush to near flour, and have no problem with sparging if the husks are in good shape.

 

You probably have a conversion problem.  If you are doing a 90 minute mash, bumping the temperature up to 58-62F for the last 30 minutes may help your conversion if you have a less than ideal crush.  Mashing thinner will help this, too, but it's going to be tough to make a 1.079 beer and mash thin.



#10 codemonkey

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 04:58 AM

You may have a lautering problem, if you have a large dead volume. What's the dead volume in your tun? Put some water in the empty tun, let it drain and see what's left.  

 

Based on yesterday's run I'd say it's a bit over a gallon. The SS braid (anyone remember the warthog?) tends to bend and kink off the bottom.

 

For the record, I doubt it's a water problem. I've used bottle watter in the past with similar results. 



#11 denny

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 09:19 AM

I would definately look at the crush. I do all the same things and would expect atleast 75%.

 

Yep.  90+% of efficiency problems are crush related.

Forgot to mention the crush. I have a crankandstein 3 roller, the one that's not as easy to adjust. I don't know how to accurately measure the gap, but I played around with it and a feeler guage a few weekends ago. When I first started grinding today flour was coming out, so I eased off a bit. I don't have much to compare it too, but it's definitely more pulverized that what I'd get from the LHBS.

 

Flour is good, if your lauter system can handle it.  Mine can.

Appreciate the feedback. I'll go with a finer crush and see if that helps. Would hate to end up with a stuck sparge but it's worth the risk if that's my culprit. I also like your idea of equal runnings and I'll try that as well. I'm not too worried about pH as I can always bring that down. I didn't do any water adjustments this time as I wanted to have a baseline first. 

 

Equal runnings makes VERY little difference.  If your runnings are within a gal. or so it's close enough.



#12 MyaCullen

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 09:19 AM

Yep.  90+% of efficiency problems are crush related.

 

Flour is good, if your lauter system can handle it.  Mine can.

 

Equal runnings makes VERY little difference.  If your runnings are within a gal. or so it's close enough.

mine looks like split in half hulls and rough flour



#13 denny

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 09:20 AM

Based on yesterday's run I'd say it's a bit over a gallon. The SS braid (anyone remember the warthog?) tends to bend and kink off the bottom.

 

For the record, I doubt it's a water problem. I've used bottle watter in the past with similar results. 

 

Doesn't matter if the braid rises up.  All the draining happens at the outlet, not along the braid.



#14 MyaCullen

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 09:44 AM

Doesn't matter if the braid rises up.  All the draining happens at the outlet, not along the braid.

I got better efficiency just by swapping out the barb fitting for one with an inside diameter that matched the ball valve, so I got better flow.



#15 codemonkey

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 10:17 AM

Well, the good thing is that I'll be doing the exact same mash towards the end of the week, so next time I'll crush the hell out of it.



#16 denny

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 10:21 AM

Well, the good thing is that I'll be doing the exact same mash towards the end of the week, so next time I'll crush the hell out of it.

 

Crush til you're scared!



#17 Poptop

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 10:59 AM

I love that line.

#18 Poptop

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:58 AM

Anyone out there with a Barley Crusher find that the rollers shift and require adjustment?

#19 positiveContact

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 05:31 PM

Anyone out there with a Barley Crusher find that the rollers shift and require adjustment?

 

i haven't yet.  i had 80+% beer house efficiency (into the fermentor) today.  no overnight mash or anything this time.  just a 60 minute.  i also didn't heat my sparge water that much.  half was only 60F, the other half was boiling.



#20 BarelyBrews

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 06:20 PM

Anyone out there with a Barley Crusher find that the rollers shift and require adjustment?

 

Nope,not on there own. I thought i would try to improve on my 80% eff i was getting last year , and played heck getting it back to where i want it.




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