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what does your lager fermentation schedule look like?


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#21 Big Nake

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:00 PM

I read something that outlined the brewing process of something like Budweiser in the U.S. and something like Budvar or Staropramen or other European lager. The article said that Budweiser is ready about 21 days after it's brewed but that European breweries still lager their beers (or some of the purist varieties) still lager their beers for 90 days. This was a relatively recent article and I believed it. But I also know this is a business and beer that is sitting around for 3 months is not generating revenue.

#22 positiveContact

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:17 PM

That's essentially the Narziss method, perhaps slightly speeded up by not naturally carbonating and filtering. That's at least 70 years old, at this point, I think. My understanding is that this is a very typical schedule in Germany and it's near what I do (I skip the 70F step, naturally carbonate and don't filter). I also make traditional gravities of 1.040-1.048, which tend to finish quick and clean.I've seen it written a number of times that the German philosophy is that a lager should be in a glass by 6 weeks, because it goes down hill after that. Americans may be expecting something different from their lagers, than Germans, because we are used to "refined" macro lagers and mainstream German lagers that have been pasteurized and sat in shipping containers, warehouses, and on shelves. Germans are used to beers brewed locally and served fresh (at least they were a few decades ago... I drank most of my German beer in the 70s when practically every other town had a brewery) and freshness is highly prized.

 

well this makes me feel better.  i was getting worried i was making awful beer or something.



#23 positiveContact

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:43 PM

I'm at about 1.020 right now (day 4) and all seems to be tasting pretty good for a still fermenting lager.



#24 johnpreuss

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:49 PM

I'm at about 1.020 right now (day 4) and all seems to be tasting pretty good for a still fermenting lager.

 

Let it free rise



#25 positiveContact

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:11 AM

Let it free rise

 

it basically already is if i were to open the freezer.  my basement is only 52F.  i've been having to run the space heater in the freezer to warm it up slightly.

 

okay - just kicked it up to 60.4F (fermentor temp) on the temp controller.


Edited by TheGuv, 18 April 2014 - 03:32 AM.


#26 positiveContact

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:29 AM

I'm excited to try this beer.  drez and I worked out the recipe.  if it comes out good I'll post the recipe up for other lagerheads.



#27 HVB

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 04:38 AM

I'm excited to try this beer.  drez and I worked out the recipe.  if it comes out good I'll post the recipe up for other lagerheads.

drez should really brew his version soon!



#28 Brauer

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:13 AM

I've been fermenting my oktoberfest (brewed with 2308) since sunday.  I let it go for a couple of days around 49F.  Then I let it go up to about 51F for a day.  Then last night (day 3) I started to let it climb up to about 55-56F.  I intend to now slowly warm it to the low 60s over the next few days before letting it hang out there for a while followed by a cold crash and transfer to keg.

Looking at my records, I saw that I usually hold it at 48-50F for closer to 5 days, when the fermentation is clearly slowing down.  So, last night I made a Dunkel, with the plans to follow your temperature schedule to see what happens if I speed it up a little. I don't think a +/- a day or so will have much effect, and you probably pitch more active yeast than I do, but I wanted to know for sure.

 

I was going to make a Pils to showcase any flaws, but I decided Dunkel is what I really wanted and the best use of the 833 yeast I had.



#29 positiveContact

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:48 AM

i pitched a little under 800B cells into 10 gals of 1.057 wort.



#30 Big Nake

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:17 PM

Looking at my records, I saw that I usually hold it at 48-50F for closer to 5 days, when the fermentation is clearly slowing down.  So, last night I made a Dunkel, with the plans to follow your temperature schedule to see what happens if I speed it up a little. I don't think a +/- a day or so will have much effect, and you probably pitch more active yeast than I do, but I wanted to know for sure. I was going to make a Pils to showcase any flaws, but I decided Dunkel is what I really wanted and the best use of the 833 yeast I had.

I'll apologize in advance for the possible threadjack but... recipe on the dunkel? Brauer, coming from you, I'd like to see it because I have 2124 and 2206 coming up and had a dunkel in mind for one of them. 2308 might be better than either of those two but that's what I have. Cheers.

#31 Brauer

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:02 AM

I'll apologize in advance for the possible threadjack but... recipe on the dunkel? Brauer, coming from you, I'd like to see it because I have 2124 and 2206 coming up and had a dunkel in mind for one of them. 2308 might be better than either of those two but that's what I have. Cheers.

This probably isn't the recipe you're looking for. This one isn't my usual Munich Dunkel.  It's not particularly strict to style, being somewhere between a Dunkel and a Schwarzbier. In Germany, I find that Dunkel and Schwarzbier are used interchangeably and there are a continuum of beers that cover every variation of the style. This one is intended to be a little hoppier, slightly roastier than the Dunkel than I usually brew, just because I was in the mood for that, but bittered to the same level and with all the Munich goodness. I didn't want to add acid, so I went for a healthy dose of Ca, with moderate levels of both SO4 and Cl, for a mash and wort pH of 5.4. I also decided to go with Mt. Hood.

 
Schwarzbier
Size: 3.25 gal, Efficiency: 78.0%
Original Gravity: 1.048, Color: 18.92, Alcohol: 4.68%, Bitterness: 23.3
 
4 lb (68.8%) German Light Munich
1.5 lb (25.8%) Pilsner Malt
5.0 oz (5.4%) Carafa Special® Type I
0.5 oz (33.3%) Mt. Hood (5.8%) - added first wort, boiled 60 m
1.0 oz (66.7%) Mt. Hood (5.8%) - added after boil, steeped 15.0 m
White Labs WLP833 German Bock Lager (Ayinger)
 
72 ppm Ca, 1 ppm Mg, 10 ppm Na, 10 ppm HCO3, 69 ppm SO4, 76 ppm Cl
Mash In - Liquor: 3 gal; Target: 149.0 °, Rest: 70 m
Infusion - 1.5 gal, Target: 158 °F, Rest: 20 m
Sparge - 0.5 Gal, Total Runoff: 4.3 gal I'm calling it a sparge, because I had to top off the tun, during my no sparge runnings, to hit my volume and it seems to have increased my no-sparge efficiency a little from it's usual 75%.

 

Usually, for a Munich Dunkel, I use a little less Carafa, mash for a shorter time at 149F, and get all my bitterness from a FWH Hallertauer addition. 



#32 positiveContact

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:13 PM

so it's been just over 2 weeks since brew day.  beer isn't carbed enough yet but already excellent.  it's nearly clear already but I'm guessing a couple of weeks should have it pretty much crystal clear.  i would not hesitate to suggest that anyone give this ferm schedule a try.  :cheers:



#33 positiveContact

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:40 PM

please excuse the non-beer-clean glass.  not too bad for pretty much the first pull off the keg.

 

httpss://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UwGij3g8eFg/U170wq-al9I/AAAAAAAAQTU/PuZLPnHFxmc/s576/CIMG8593.JPG



#34 neddles

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:35 PM

Yeah that looks great man. I used 2308 on my Helles and that sucker cleared as fast or faster than any English yeast I have used...including WY1968.

#35 positiveContact

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:17 AM

Yeah that looks great man. I used 2308 on my Helles and that sucker cleared as fast or faster than any English yeast I have used...including WY1968.

 

i've never had a lager taste this good this early either.  hopefully it still ages well.



#36 HVB

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:30 AM

please excuse the non-beer-clean glass.  not too bad for pretty much the first pull off the keg.

 

httpss://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UwGij3g8eFg/U170wq-al9I/AAAAAAAAQTU/PuZLPnHFxmc/s576/CIMG8593.JPG

Great looking beer. 



#37 Brauer

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:39 AM

Glad you liked the results! 

 

My Dunkel fermented out fast with 833. My active fermentation was almost done in 3 days, when I warmed it up. Usually, I like to still have a little active fermentation after I warm it.  I suspected that I underpitched a bit, maybe 1.2B/L*P, but, if so, that didn't slow the fermentation.

 

I'll try to squeeze in a Pilsner or a small Bock on Saturday, after I keg this.




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