19 replies to this topic

[mach5]

Hey all, I just read about the glycol chiller project in BYO this morning and I had a couple questions/comments about the article that I thought would make a good discussion. I think I'll also pose these in an e-mail to the editor at BYO as well.If you look at the article, they state right up front that the cost to build the project is $2000, that's no small amount for a DIYer...then if you read the article they state that to buy a glycol chiller will cost you $1500. What is not necessarily clear up front is that the project costs include 2 brand new Sabco fermenters, at around $570 each...right there is half your budget. Any respectable DIYer will already have a fermenter or would build one from scratch at a fraction of the cost. I think this whole project could be done for much, much cheaper.Moving along, I was curious about the size of the cooler. Is such a large cooler required in this project? Is such a big glycol pool needed for some technical reason, or could that be minimized?What about the aluminum jacket, is that needed or is it for looks? Could you stop with the insulation wrap and use tie buckles or metal straps to hold it all together?Does the refrig unit need to be an AC or would a gutted small dorm fridge work as well?Any thoughts from people who have read the article? If you haven't read it, take a look, it is a cool project.

[RommelMagic]

yeah, I kinda glanced at it too and pretty much had the same frame of mind. This could be done for much cheaper than what they are saying.

[MoreAmmoPlz]

My BYO subscription has lapsed ATM. Any chance one of you guys could post a quick run-down of what it entails? Sounds like a pretty interesting project.

[dagomike]

My subscription lapsed too. I renewed, but I guess waiting to see if they send it or start next month. If you're going to spend $2000, you have lots of options... are we thinking of how to make it cheaper?I thought someone somewhere made a chiller that basically had a reservoir in a freezer and then pumped it through copper tubing wrapped around the fermenter. Might have used anti-freeze.

[MoreAmmoPlz]

My subscription lapsed too. I renewed, but I guess waiting to see if they send it or start next month. If you're going to spend $2000, you have lots of options... are we thinking of how to make it cheaper?I thought someone somewhere made a chiller that basically had a reservoir in a freezer and then pumped it through copper tubing wrapped around the fermenter. Might have used anti-freeze.

That's exactly what I've seen too.

[strangebrewer]

Wiper fluid is a better option than antifreeze.

What makes wiper fluid better? Freezing temperatures aside all together the benefits I see to wiper fluid are it is less expensive, lower viscosity, much less toxic, but as far as performance goes antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol) is going to have a better thermal conductivity. Or is it that for the application antifreeze just isn't necessary to maintain the temps we need so the benefit isn't worth the extra work?

[strangebrewer]

Wiper fluid can get close to freezing temps w/o freezing. Its safer and cheaper to have around mixed in large quantities such as a cooler. For those that use a chest freezer for serving/conditioning then wiper fluid would be perfect. Those that are using a freezer, then anitfreeze is a better option. But i wouldn't use either one if used in a coil that is suspended inside the fermenter as some projects we've seen do. One thing i noticed in the article is the amount of antifreeze he is using. I think its a bit overkill. Oh, and a copper coil in the bath instead of that small radiator cooler will save you even more money. And i do agree, that when the wort is properly chilled going into the fermenter, then the temp ranges from the glycol to the desired fermentation temps doesn't take much to keep it there. Lagers for primary fermentation's might push maintaining at 50*, but id be willing to take the cheap gamble and use Wiper fluid first. For me personally, having that much antifreeze around isn't worth it to me. For one, i have pets, so why push the envelope?Luckily for me i have 10g of Propylene Glycol. Which is even better yet, but much more expensive. I also think the $2000 price tag included all the welding of that fermenter. That thing there is alot of that cost. Which as we all know, us DIYers can have that same fermenter for tons cheaper.

Makes sense and I agree that having that much antifreeze around is not something I'd be all that excited over being as it is fatally toxic and requires special disposal. This project has me thinking however for my purposes the fermenter I am chilling will either be a plastic bucket or a converted Sanke keg. In both cases the chiller would be inside the fermenter along with a thermowell. 50' of SS tubing inside the fermenter should do the trick and provide for a sanitary and easily cleanable alternative. I think this would be the more common scenario for the average home brewer. Maybe someday I'll have big shiny conicals

[Dean Palmer]

Another thing that didn't make sense was that he said to remove the fan blade and cut the motor shaft, but seemed to leave the fan motor connected and running for no reason, and gave no explanation why. I'd like to think that you could have unplugged that motor from the relay and removed it from the setup.As for using a mini-fridge as the source of chilling, I don't think a mini-fridge would have the cooling capacity to keep two rapidly fermenting vessels in check and would simply run until the cycle would cut off, or just never stop while the wort went way overtemp. Now if you used the guts of the mini-fridge and placed the cooling coils in the glycol like they did with the AC unit it might be possible. The problem with just using the mini-fridge is that the air between the fridge cooling unit and the glycol is a very inefficient heat conductor, while the liquid in the system and the fermenter have huge liquid thermal masses that will win the fight. Maybe a chest freezer, but then again, air is a very inefficient conductor and should be removed from the process if possible.Of course we already know folks that use chilled air from fridges and freezers piped into other containers to control fermentation temps, so nothing is impossible, it just might be less efficient in some ways.Frankly, my upright freezer works great, doesn't take up as much space as that rig, was ~$80 off Craigslist, and works with any vessel I place inside it including all keg fermenters. I could place another right beside it and still be using less space for much less $$ It is a cool project, but in my opinion, hardly worth it just to say I have "glycol cooling." Probably not as cool when you have to clean those fermenters!!!!!

[tag]

A friend uses a used water cooler. You could probably just use ice water too.

[Dean Palmer]

A friend uses a used water cooler. You could probably just use ice water too.

Not with the air conditioner method in BYO, it would probably freeze solid in the coils.

[DubbelEntendre]

Couldn't you skip the pumps and the copper tubing and place the fermenting vessel directly in a wiper fluid/water bath, and use the coil from the A/C unit to keep the bath at the appropriate temperature?Maybe use 1 small pump to recirculate the wiper fluid/water bath.

[Dean Palmer]

Couldn't you skip the pumps and the copper tubing and place the fermenting vessel directly in a wiper fluid/water bath, and use the coil from the A/C unit to keep the bath at the appropriate temperature?Maybe use 1 small pump to recirculate the wiper fluid/water bath.

Sure, but you'd have to have a liquid bath big enough to hold the fermenting vessel(s) and I'd think a way to seal off the liquid itself to prevent contamination, evaporation, spills, pets drinking it, etc.

[dagomike]

Wiper fluid is a better option than antifreeze.

The winter mix stuff I'd think would be a great idea. The stuff I usually get is good for like -30 or something.

[DubbelEntendre]

Sure, but you'd have to have a liquid bath big enough to hold the fermenting vessel(s) and I'd think a way to seal off the liquid itself to prevent contamination, evaporation, spills, pets drinking it, etc.

My initial thought was to take the Ice Cube Max Cold https://www.gandermo...d...4006&r=view and add the cooling element to that. Based on the dimensions given on the linked page, it would seem as though there is enough room for a small pump to circulate, the cooling coil, and a carboy.-Dubs

[MyaCullen]

The winter mix stuff I'd think would be a great idea. The stuff I usually get is good for like -30 or something.

not to mention dirt cheap.i have my eye on a Royce Cooling nit that's just gathering dust at my place of employment. If the boss ever lets me buy it, it'll be 3/4 of the Glycol build already done.

[pods8]

Another thing that didn't make sense was that he said to remove the fan blade and cut the motor shaft, but seemed to leave the fan motor connected and running for no reason, and gave no explanation why. I'd like to think that you could have unplugged that motor from the relay and removed it from the setup.

I didn't read the article but the dude might have lacked the understand of the things to do that?

[tag]

Not with the air conditioner method in BYO, it would probably freeze solid in the coils.

Instead of...