33 replies to this topic

[BlKtRe]

That's good to know for future reference. I brewed this yesterday. Right now she's ticking away nicely at 59F. One of the easiest brew days ever.

 

Yea, Alts are kinda mindless brewing.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I don't agree that 1007 is entirely neutral. I haven't done a side by side with 1056 with an alt, but I have with MLPA, which is kind of altish. Wasn't purely scientific, but at least among people I've given it to, they preferred the 1007. I think I'm in that group too. The flocculation is a bit of a pain, but it's meant to be lagered a bit anyway and tends to taste better around 8-10 weeks on than it does right away. Maybe that is because of the flocculation. I gel both beers, so it isn't as big a problem. Any difference is going to be subtle and if the beer has flaws at all, those subtleties will be lost easily.

 

Considering I'm brewing 1bbl at a time now and batches are limited, I'm not going to be doing experiments yet on 1056 vs 1007 in alt. Maybe when I get the brewery started and I brew 6 days a week that can happen.

[neddles]

Seems like this yeast could make a nice Blonde Ale, no? Anyone done it? I have a bit of it I harvested from the starter. Thinking about making a blonde ale finishing with a light touch of Motueka and Saaz late in the boil. Thoughts?

Edited by nettles, 07 April 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[BlKtRe]

I don't agree that 1007 is entirely neutral. I haven't done a side by side with 1056 with an alt, but I have with MLPA, which is kind of altish. Wasn't purely scientific, but at least among people I've given it to, they preferred the 1007. I think I'm in that group too. The flocculation is a bit of a pain, but it's meant to be lagered a bit anyway and tends to taste better around 8-10 weeks on than it does right away. Maybe that is because of the flocculation. I gel both beers, so it isn't as big a problem. Any difference is going to be subtle and if the beer has flaws at all, those subtleties will be lost easily.

 

Considering I'm brewing 1bbl at a time now and batches are limited, I'm not going to be doing experiments yet on 1056 vs 1007 in alt. Maybe when I get the brewery started and I brew 6 days a week that can happen.

 

I've used both strains for many years in Alts. 1007 even longer, probably around 12-13 yrs by now. I do agree with you the extended conditioning to clear a 1007 also helps with the other flavors. In this camp I see no conceivable difference between the two. I know several Pro guys that use 1056 for their Octoberfest as well. Same deal there. Im not saying for people to run out and use 1056 but I betcha a doughnut most people that switch will stick with 1056 because of the "pain" issue of 1007. 

Edited by BlKtRe, 08 April 2015 - 08:37 AM.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I've used both strains for many years in Alts. 1007 even longer, probably around 12-13 yrs by now. I do agree with you the extended conditioning to clear a 1007 also helps with the other flavors. In this camp I see no conceivable difference between the two. I know several Pro guys that use 1056 for their Octoberfest as well. Same deal there. Im not saying for people to run out and use 1056 but I betcha a doughnut most people that switch will stick with 1056 because of the "pain" issue of 1007. 

 

I dunno, there's a marketing opportunity on the pro side of things when making authentic beer styles. It's certainly not a beer that's in high demand around the world, so an occasional alt done "the hard way" (lol) is an opportunity to showcase some old school stuff.

 

I'll definitely do an alt with 1056 at lower temps to see what I get when I have the brewery going. Should be easier especially if I can split a batch.

[BlKtRe]

I dunno, there's a marketing opportunity on the pro side of things when making authentic beer styles. It's certainly not a beer that's in high demand around the world, so an occasional alt done "the hard way" (lol) is an opportunity to showcase some old school stuff.

 

I'll definitely do an alt with 1056 at lower temps to see what I get when I have the brewery going. Should be easier especially if I can split a batch.

 

I figured the "its not traditional" argument would appear at some point.  

[SchwanzBrewer]

I figured the "its not traditional" argument would appear at some point.  

 

It's not an invalid argument when it comes to selling beer.

 

Even in homebrewing it's not invalid because let's face it, you do it because you want to. No one does a decoction mash because they are 100% certain it makes a better beer. It's about the experience and knowing that your beer was made as traditionally as you could. That doesn't necessarily make it better beer, but if it makes the brewer feel good, then who are we to say they should do it differently.

[BlKtRe]

It's not an invalid argument when it comes to selling beer.

 

Even in homebrewing it's not invalid because let's face it, you do it because you want to. No one does a decoction mash because they are 100% certain it makes a better beer. It's about the experience and knowing that your beer was made as traditionally as you could. That doesn't necessarily make it better beer, but if it makes the brewer feel good, then who are we to say they should do it differently.

 

Not arguing that point. But I feel just great using 1056 and so do my Alt drinkers when they are drinking it! 

[SchwanzBrewer]

I'm certainly not saying that 1056 can't make a great alt either. It's one of my favorite yeasts and I use it on pretty much all of my brown ales, IPAs, and anything else american. In fact I think I'll use it on my next batch of MLPA and ferment it cold to simulate the 1007 and see if my judges can tell the difference.

[BlKtRe]

I'm certainly not saying that 1056 can't make a great alt either. It's one of my favorite yeasts and I use it on pretty much all of my brown ales, IPAs, and anything else american. In fact I think I'll use it on my next batch of MLPA and ferment it cold to simulate the 1007 and see if my judges can tell the difference.

 

Better yet do a 10g split batch and pitch each strain. Age them the same and see what they say. 

[denny]

Good discussion. Great to get everyone's input here, thanks. I have not had any of the above examples you guys mentioned and cannot get them where I live. No trips overseas  anytime soon either! I bought some Alaskan Amber to try and sadly it seemed to miss the mark for me. Dunno, my suspicion is that it's not a particularly great example of the style. It's like 18 IBU, pretty sweet, and more caramelly than would be my preference. Not a bad beer, but not what I want to make. You guys mentioned examples that were "drinkable" and examples that were "interesting". Ideally I'd like to make something that is both. I would really like to keep the ABV down a little which is why I am thinking of something in the 1.050 range.

 

Alaskan amber is only an altbier in the minds of Alaskan Brewing.

For the record, if you don't want to hassle with 1007 and its poor flocculation characteristics use 1056 cold at 60*. The turn around time is much faster and since both are neutral strains there wont be a difference in the beer. I switched over to 1056 on my Alts about 3yrs ago and haven't went back. My hardcore Alt drinkers haven't picked it out and neither did the public when I brewed 15 bll of my Alt at one of the local pub's. The beer got reviewed by German's looking for a American representation of Alt and they couldn't pick it out. 

 

People always talk about the poor flocculation of 1007, but I've never experienced that.  And while 1056 at 60 will work great, 1007 at 52 is even better!

[BlKtRe]

I have had trouble with 1007 that cold. I guess Im impatient or something. Might as well call it a Lager at that temp.  

[neddles]

Alaskan amber is only an altbier in the minds of Alaskan Brewing.

…and the BJCP, if you're into that sort of thing. 

 

https://www.bjcp.org.../style07.php#1a

[SchwanzBrewer]

Better yet do a 10g split batch and pitch each strain. Age them the same and see what they say. 

 

I can't anymore. It's 1bbl or 5 gal, and my 5 gal rig is jury rigged just so I could do the war of the worts. I'd need to redo my mash tun and everything else. So 1bbl or bust. Also, I had trouble getting consistent results between 2 fermentations of the same yeast when I split the batches. never figured out why entirely. 

 

Alaskan amber is only an altbier in the minds of Alaskan Brewing.

 

People always talk about the poor flocculation of 1007, but I've never experienced that.  And while 1056 at 60 will work great, 1007 at 52 is even better!

 

It floccs out after about a week being cold, but it takes almost 3 weeks cold to really clear without gel.

 

I have had trouble with 1007 that cold. I guess Im impatient or something. Might as well call it a Lager at that temp.  

 

I use it at 55. Again, I'll experiment with different temps when I'm able to brew a lot more.

Edited by SchwanzBrewer, 08 April 2015 - 11:00 AM.