22 replies to this topic

[BrianBrewerKS]

Hey all, I know we've got at least a few folks around here that make their living at breweries. I'd be largely grateful if those folks could/would chime in here. And, I know there are a ton of other folks that are very knowlegeable about the biz that don't work at a brewery. Please chime in too. Alright, so I'm just looking for some advice…Err'body please chime in!

 

I've got a tough decision to make. This morning, I was offered basically an entry-level job at the nearest 'regional' brewery. The job…or at least the potential career path…is my dream career. Everything I've learned about the brewery…the folks…the location…their product…is great. As far as all that goes, this is a slam dunk decision. The issue, of course, isn't a surprise: $$$. Now, I know that I'll never get rich working at a brewery…but in order for me to accept this job, I'm going to have to bite a major bullet.

 

Alright, here are some points to consider:

- I returned to school a couple years ago, and will graduate with a B.S. in Food Science next month. (student loans)

- My current job is directly in a food science career path.

- Unfortunately, the future of my current job is somewhat uncertain. Lots of 'voluntary' lay-off weeks…and last year there were quite a few forced lay-off days…so many that I ran out of paid time off.

- The company I work for now has a few locations across the country. It's entirely possible that I could transfer to another location for a promotion. In fact, I'm supposed to have a meeting with HR next month to discuss my options. It's unlikely that they'll have an advancement opp. for me here.

- We (wife, kids, and I) love where we are at. We worked hard to move back to this area just a year ago. We'd prefer to stay in the area.

- To change jobs would mean a drop in pay of ~ 45%. Granted, new job would pay all insurance costs where current job doesn't…I have to pay some. Haven't figured that in yet…but suffice it to say, this would be a significant drop in pay.

 

Alright, so tell me how crazy/stupid/selfish it would be for me to take this new job. Or, give me some kind of hope/reason for 'going for it'. At this point…prior to really digging into everything and asking the potential new employer more questions…I'm leaning towards having to swallow my dream and turn it down. I've got a week to decide one way or another.

[denny]

You have student loans and a family.  You are in a job that fits your career path.  IMO, you are letting the fantasy of what you _think_ the brewing job will be like drive your decision.  I'd advise you to be rational and look at things objectively.  If that's what you really want to do, there will always be brewery jobs available.  But I can tell you that working at an entry level job in a brewery will make you rethink your choice very quickly.

[positiveContact]

have you done any work (even volunteer) at a brewery before to give you an idea of what this would be like?

[BrianBrewerKS]

You have student loans and a family.  You are in a job that fits your career path.  IMO, you are letting the fantasy of what you _think_ the brewing job will be like drive your decision.  I'd advise you to be rational and look at things objectively.  If that's what you really want to do, there will always be brewery jobs available.  But I can tell you that working at an entry level job in a brewery will make you rethink your choice very quickly.

 

Thanks Denny…you were one that I hoped would comment! Believe me, I'm thinking about this rationally. That's the whole point of taking a week to think about it. Right now, I'm leaning HEAVILY towards 'no'. But, there's absolutely no way that I'm going to say 'no' without giving it a serious, well thought out chance. I know what entry level means in the brewery world. 'Snot glamorous at all. My current job isn't either! (although it may have a quicker rise and a higher ceiling…which will more than likely be my answer)

have you done any work (even volunteer) at a brewery before to give you an idea of what this would be like?

 

You mean do I realize that "Cellarman" means "janitor" in brewery talk? Of course I do.

 

On the other hand, if I were going to be a janitor anywhere, I'd want it to be at a brewery! 

[SchwanzBrewer]

I've volunteered at a couple breweries around town and worked with the brewers doing stuff.

 

Without any sort of brewing science degree or experience in the field other than homebrewing, the best you could hope for is brewing at a nano instead of cellaring at a regional. Pay will likely be the same.

 

I'd say you're looking at more like a 15% pay cut after insurance and everything else is taken into account likely. But the only way to get experience in the business is to starting working at a brewery. It's hard work, but you have to try and outshine people in order to get into that brew house. That or you have to go back to school.

 

I considered going to brew school a couple years ago, but I just didn't have the money or ability to do it. I wish I could have though. I'd likely be up and running already had been able to.

 

If the wifey is cool with it and has a reasonable income, and it's really what you want to do, then I'd go for it. But then again, I want to brew for a living, so thats easy for me to say.

I'd hang out at the probrewer.com forum and ask around about experiences too.

[djinkc]

Breaking into a brewery is like breaking into a restaurant, even though breweries think they're fancier and more prestigious. You have to be willing to do anything and everything, with nothing but a spectacular job and a "yes sir!", coming in early and staying late asking/intuiting what needs to be done, if you want to rise the ranks as soon as possible.

I don't really see much difference between the two. Brewpubs - exponential

[BrianBrewerKS]

I've volunteered at a couple breweries around town and worked with the brewers doing stuff.

 

Without any sort of brewing science degree or experience in the field other than homebrewing, the best you could hope for is brewing at a nano instead of cellaring at a regional. Pay will likely be the same.

 

I'd say you're looking at more like a 15% pay cut after insurance and everything else is taken into account likely. But the only way to get experience in the business is to starting working at a brewery. It's hard work, but you have to try and outshine people in order to get into that brew house. That or you have to go back to school.

 

I considered going to brew school a couple years ago, but I just didn't have the money or ability to do it. I wish I could have though. I'd likely be up and running already had been able to.

 

If the wifey is cool with it and has a reasonable income, and it's really what you want to do, then I'd go for it. But then again, I want to brew for a living, so thats easy for me to say.

I'd hang out at the probrewer.com forum and ask around about experiences too.

 

I think I could get past the short-term $$$ drop. I'm not so sure that the future potential is worth the work/wait though. That's what I've got to convince myself of. I've got to have faith that this position…this brewery…would continue on a trajectory that it has been on, to grow into the kind of career that I would need to have.

 

On the other side of the equation, I could continue on where I'm at…not knowing when, or if, the current company I work for sells out to another company. If that happens, I scramble for a job, and have to move the family to, at best, 2 hours away.

[BrianBrewerKS]

Breaking into a brewery is like breaking into a restaurant, even though breweries think they're fancier and more prestigious. You have to be willing to do anything and everything, with nothing but a spectacular job and a "yes sir!", coming in early and staying late asking/intuiting what needs to be done, if you want to rise the ranks as soon as possible.

 

I agree 4000%. My problem is that I need to convince myself that, after I rise the ranks, I'll be where I need to be. I'm not a 1%er…never need to be…but I've got a family, and I want to do what's best for us, not me.

Competition is stiff, I'd doubt he has another chance outside of this offer. He doesn't live in a beer Mecca like the PNW.

 

This is true. And, I'm glad. If this passes, I can bury the dream and move on.

I don't really see much difference between the two. Brewpubs - exponential

 

I'm guessing that Drew went through something similar. Any regrets there? Anything that he wishes he would have done different? I don't know him much at all…just trying to get a feel from folks who have walked that line.

[3rd party JKor]

I couldn't do it. At this point I'd pretty much have to come in at operations manager level to even come close to what i'm making now and i don't have any safety net from a spouse. Hauling grain and cleaning actually doesn't sound that bad to me, but not for $15/hr.For your position, a few things to consider:-The industry is booming. There's likely to be more opportunity in this industry, particularly in less saturated areas like KS. -i think as the industry is changing in price structure, the products on the whole will be more profitable which i think is a positive trend for salaries.-also, as the industry grows, i think it's likely to have a positive effect on salaries as breweries will need to pay more to get good people. Particularly higher level people. you can't pay a process engineer $40k when the local chemical corp is paying $70k, especially as the pool of people gets smaller.-stability is often not great, clearly, breweries come and go. Sounds like you're talking a bigger brewery so maybe not as big of a deal.I don't have any experience with small breweries, this is just my take from the outside.

[positiveContact]

the only kind of brewery job I'd REALLY want would be an R&D type position.  I'd need to be doing science.  since I don't have a brewing or chem degree that is pretty unlikely to ever happen.  that doesn't mean I couldn't figure this shit out b/c experience has shown me I can learn whatever I need to learn if there is a need but employers wouldn't likely share my optimistic outlook on that.

Edited by Evil_Morty, 11 April 2015 - 08:07 AM.

[denny]

Competition is stiff, I'd doubt he has another chance outside of this offer. He doesn't live in a beer Mecca like the PNW.

 

Seriously?  With the way craft breweries are expanding (over 1000 new ones in the next year) I can't imagine that they won't be seriously in need of entry level people.

[denny]

Man, how unlike around here.

[MyaCullen]

Man, how unlike around here.

that kinda is his point

[denny]

that kinda is his point

 

Yeah, it is...I just didn't realize he had personal experience with it.  Based on what I know of the industry, it was just hard for me to understand it was a reality somewhere. 

[SchwanzBrewer]

Also tough for homebrewers to break in around here. If a place gets big enough to hire people, it's usually people they already know. Lots of small places around here though. $15/hr is a hell of a wage for most brewery workers in craft around here.

[2ndstage]

Its a big question for us as we get closer to opening our brewpub. https://yellowcity.coop/

I can't afford to take the step back career wise to brew full time so me and some others will rotate it until we can locate/hire a brewer.  One of the advantages of running this as a co-op as we do have more access to resources than some business models.   Closer every day.  Never brewed so much in my life and then give it all away at our monthly beer socials for the co-op.  Fun times though.

[positiveContact]

the idea of a co-op brewery seems pretty cool.

[3rd party JKor]

$15/hr is a hell of a wage for most brewery workers in craft around here.

 

 

[SchwanzBrewer]

 

It's true. There are three micros in the area that are capable of putting out more than 50K+ BBL. Cigar City, Brew Hub, and Coppertail. Everyone else is in the <5000 BBL range and there are 2 dozen of those.

 

So if you are a manager/head brewer at one of those three you can make a good living. The brewers are probably only making $15 - $20/hr at those places.

 

If you are working at one of the other ones I wouldn't expect to make much more than $10 - $15 and hour as a brewer/cellar master. But, at the small places many of the brewers also work the tap room and make tips that help counter that.

 

As an owner I'm not going to make more than $20/hr for a couple years at least, but I have equity and can make more through that eventually. I also won't be drawing a salary for a while.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

https://www.payscale...wer/Hourly_Rate  Damn-$13 median hourly wage

https://www.abgbrew....aq#.VS6DX9zF-to  You'd need to be a manager at a fairly large brewery to start making decent money.