22 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

So I made this "pale bock" which is now on tap. A combination of Munich, Vienna, some Pils and then hops at 60 but then I goofed completely and added late hops which makes it taste much more like a pilsner than a bock. This is really not my style but I should have known better than to hop it that way. Anyway, there was a late addition of Tettnanger which was very low in AA% (2.4%, 2.7% or thereabouts) and I had just picked these up from my LHBS. This late hop addition has a very funky flavor and I have used Tettnanger before many times. I hate to say it's cheesy or gym sock-like but it's in that area. The hops are always fresh at this place and they looked and smelled okay when I opened them. What am I experiencing here? Slightly vegetal and just a little off. This character has faded a bit since I put the beer on tap and it would be MUCH better if it faded away completely. Did I just get some bad hops?

[SchwanzBrewer]

I had the same exact problem with tettnanger. I was going to use it on a BGS, I didn't have any so I bought some 1oz packs from the LHBS, opened them up and it was cheesy garlic gym socks. Most disgusting smelling hops I've ever smelled. I opted not to use them and went with more saaz.

[johnpreuss]

pull it off and let it sit for a month and try it againg later.  Sometimes it just needs more time... I know you give them time but maybe it needs even more time.

[MyaCullen]

I had the same exact problem with tettnanger. I was going to use it on a BGS, I didn't have any so I bought some 1oz packs from the LHBS, opened them up and it was cheesy garlic gym socks. Most disgusting smelling hops I've ever smelled. I opted not to use them and went with more saaz.

always, always, smell your hops

[Big Nake]

I had the same exact problem with tettnanger. I was going to use it on a BGS, I didn't have any so I bought some 1oz packs from the LHBS, opened them up and it was cheesy garlic gym socks. Most disgusting smelling hops I've ever smelled. I opted not to use them and went with more saaz.

I have actually heard some people say that they stay FAR AWAY from Tettnanger but I have always had good luck with them, used them late in the boil and I make pretty tame beers. It seems unusual but it would not be hard for me to just use Spalt, Hallertau, Herbrucker, Saaz, etc. and stay away if this character is a risk that's taken with Tettnanger. JP, I think I may just do that... send this beer to the bullpen and get something else up & throwing.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I don't think it was the hop variety. The LHBS gets the hops in bulk and repackages them in smaller units. I suspect the hops were old and oxidized. Also, I think it'd be easier to find hops that have been shipped overseas to be lower quality than domestic varieties.

 

I grew some hops and didn't pick them. The tettnanger smelled just like old hops on the bine.

[positiveContact]

yeah - i've never had great luck growing my own hops.  i still do it b/c i like the plant itself.  i've used a friends hops that he grew and dried and they were great.  not sure what i'm doing wrong.

[Big Nake]

I do like how some of these places are packaging in O2-purged, vacuum-sealed foil where you can actually see the individual pellets in there. Other places just dispense an ounce into a plastic or foil bag and seal it. I guess I'll have to be careful with this. It hasn't happened a lot but it really took the wind out of this particular batch. I know that some of you guys buy a boatload of hops and hang onto them for awhile so it seems very possible that this could happen on a late-hopped beer.

[denny]

I don't think it was the hop variety. The LHBS gets the hops in bulk and repackages them in smaller units. I suspect the hops were old and oxidized. Also, I think it'd be easier to find hops that have been shipped overseas to be lower quality than domestic varieties.

 

I grew some hops and didn't pick them. The tettnanger smelled just like old hops on the bine.

 

yeah, I agree it's not the variety.  It's the particular package of hops.

BTW, here's a tip on pellets that I learned at Hop & Brew school.  Look at the outside of the pellets.  If it's shiny, they were extruded at too high a temp and won't be very good.  The outside should be dull, not shiny.  Hop Union has installed liquid nitro jacketed pellet extruders to keep them cool.

[Big Nake]

yeah, I agree it's not the variety.  It's the particular package of hops.BTW, here's a tip on pellets that I learned at Hop & Brew school.  Look at the outside of the pellets.  If it's shiny, they were extruded at too high a temp and won't be very good.  The outside should be dull, not shiny.  Hop Union has installed liquid nitro jacketed pellet extruders to keep them cool.

Interesting. I always use pellets and I marvel at all of the different looks and sizes of the pellets. Small, short clumps. Long, thin rods. Some are VERY green and some are less green. They usually smell very good when I open them but I have never looked at the sheen of the pellet... I'll have to keep an eye open for that.

[neddles]

Another possibility, if they were US Tettnanger. According to Hieronymus in For the Love of Hops US Tetts. have more in common with Fuggle than German Tettnanger and he even alludes to the possibility that US Tettnanger is so different from German that it may not be genetically identical as it is supposed to be.

[MyaCullen]

Another possibility, if they were US Tettnanger. According to Hieronymus in For the Love of Hops US Tetts. have more in common with Fuggle than German Tettnanger and he even alludes to the possibility that US Tettnanger is so different from German that it may not be genetically identical as it is supposed to be.

US Tett is a Clone of Swiss Tett which is a Fuggle, IIRC

[Big Nake]

Yeah, I do not care for US. Tettnanger. I did buy them years ago thinking they might be okay but I didn't like them at all. I also don't buy US. Magnum. Hops of German origin is what I pick up if it's anything German: Hallertau, Spalt, Perle, Hersbrucker, Tettnanger, Norther Brewer, Magnum, etc.

[denny]

Another possibility, if they were US Tettnanger. According to Hieronymus in For the Love of Hops US Tetts. have more in common with Fuggle than German Tettnanger and he even alludes to the possibility that US Tettnanger is so different from German that it may not be genetically identical as it is supposed to be.

 

This is true.  However, I've been using US Tetts for the last year and haven't gotten Fuggle-like qualities from them.  I'm coming to believe that terroir plays a big role in hop character.  A guy down the road from me grows organic Fuggles that are nothing like any Fuggle I've ever used.

[neddles]

This is true. However, I've been using US Tetts for the last year and haven't gotten Fuggle-like qualities from them. I'm coming to believe that terroir plays a big role in hop character. A guy down the road from me grows organic Fuggles that are nothing like any Fuggle I've ever used.

yep terroir and probably individual horticultural practice as well.

[MyaCullen]

This is true.  However, I've been using US Tetts for the last year and haven't gotten Fuggle-like qualities from them.  I'm coming to believe that terroir plays a big role in hop character.  A guy down the road from me grows organic Fuggles that are nothing like any Fuggle I've ever used.

maybe the Hop farmers have switched to a German tett clone?

 

ditto on the terroir (wish there was a non french word for this ) 

[Big Nake]

So I'm brewing today and I had some new Hallertau pellets at 3.2% and the recipe called for a little more than what I had (without opening a new package) so I looked at found some Hallertau Mittelfruh I had already open at 2.7%. I measured out the new hops (very vibrant green color and excellent aroma) and then added what was left of the Mittelfruh (about ½ an ounce) and there was that grassy, vegetal smell. Hmm. I went back and looked at the recipe for the pale bock (which had the funky flavor and aroma) and sure enough there was an addition of HM 2.7% with 10 minutes left in the boil. Suspect located and hops tossed. I rounded out my recipe today with more of the fresh Hallertau 3.2%. The ounce of Tettnanger I have in the freezer (which I was looking at with suspicion) is probably okay. Never had that happen before. Also, these HM pellets came from Farmhouse Supply which is surprising because their stuff is usually VERY good and fresh.

[neddles]

Ken, That looked familiar so I checked my bag of Mittelfruh and sure enough 2013  @2.7% AA from Farmhouse. I used over an ounce here https://www.brews-br...1007/?p=2000314

 

I do remember smelling them as I do every open bag of hops. I do not remember anything off about them. Guess I'll have to see when this Alt goes on the taps.

[Big Nake]

Ken, That looked familiar so I checked my bag of Mittelfruh and sure enough 2013  @2.7% AA from Farmhouse. I used over an ounce here https://www.brews-br...1007/?p=2000314 I do remember smelling them as I do every open bag of hops. I do not remember anything off about them. Guess I'll have to see when this Alt goes on the taps.

Very possible that I messed them up, left the bag open (I don't think I did) or let them oxidize or something. I don't really keep A TON of hops around for a long time and I generally do not have this issue happen to me... at least that I can remember. It could have easily been mishandling by me and I'm not pointing the finger at Farmhouse necessarily... other than I got them from there.

[neddles]

Ken, That looked familiar so I checked my bag of Mittelfruh and sure enough 2013  @2.7% AA from Farmhouse. I used over an ounce here https://www.brews-br...1007/?p=2000314

 

I do remember smelling them as I do every open bag of hops. I do not remember anything off about them. Guess I'll have to see when this Alt goes on the taps.

Ken, I just kegged this Alt and didn't notice anything off about the hops. Remind me to update you here WRT how the Mittelfruh comes through after cold conditioning and carbonation.