15 replies to this topic

[brewman]

I'm really starting to understand this more and more but still don't understand something.  When inputting your water report it has you put in your water pH,  on tab 2 where you do your sparge acidification it has you again put in your water pH, now the acid needed for sparge water will change as the pH in tab 2 (Sparge acid) is changed.

 

Now here is what I dont understand. Why does the mash pH not change or the amount of acid needed to get a desired mash pH change when you change the pH of the water in  tab 1 (water report).

 

Dan

[positiveContact]

your water pH has a minimal effect on your overall mash pH.

[brewman]

So when it comes to mash pH grain is everything.

[positiveContact]

So when it comes to mash pH grain is everything.

 

grain and the ion content of your water is most of it.

[Big Nake]

Darker grains have more acid in them which will lower pH. Calcium chloride and calcium sulfate will also lower mash pH as well as lactic [or any other] acid you may use for brewing. I'll be honest... I got only so far with BNW and then I threw up my hands. It was telling me to use more acid than I actually needed so I learned what I could from it and then moved away from it. I base the amount of lactic acid I now need in my mash on the SRM of the beer. Lower SRM, more acid. Darker beer, less acid. I add the acid to the mash water as it's heating. This gets me very close and I go back and look at past batches to determine on upcoming batches. If the pH is slightly high, I add a little more acid to the mash and check the pH again.

[positiveContact]

ken, does BNW seem to work for you when you aren't using acid?

[SchwanzBrewer]

ken, does BNW seem to work for you when you aren't using acid?

 

Probably does, but it's not nearly as enlightening, and like, you just wouldn't understand, man.

[bigdaddyale]

Brewater 3.0 Use the formulation wizard inside the utilities tab

https://hbd.org/brew...es/brewater.zip

[positiveContact]

Probably does, but it's not nearly as enlightening, and like, you just wouldn't understand, man.

 

I use the shroom equivalent - acidulated malt.  all natural!

[Big Nake]

I enter all my information (water, grains, additions, etc) and it tells me that I need X amount of acid to get the mash pH to 5.2 but that amount of acid seems too high. I found this out by making a pale lager and I followed the BNW suggestion and the mash pH ended up around 4.6 or 4.7. I did a couple of additional batches and when BNW suggested [some amount of] acid, I went with a little bit less and it was better. I sent my sheet to Martin who said he thought that it looked like I did everything properly. I need lactic acid in the mash on any beer I make. More for pale beers, less for darker beers. I now have notes on a range of SRMs from about 3 up to maybe 15 or 16 and anytime I make a beer, I compare what I did on a previous batch and start there. If I'm making an SRM 4 beer and on the last one I started with 1.25ml of acid but only got the pH to 5.5, I use 1.5ml and see how it goes.

Edited by Village Taphouse, 14 April 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[neddles]

I enter all my information (water, grains, additions, etc) and it tells me that I need X amount of acid to get the mash pH to 5.2 but that amount of acid seems too high. I found this out by making a pale lager and I followed the BNW suggestion and the mash pH ended up around 4.6 or 4.7. I did a couple of additional batches and when BNW suggested [some amount of] acid, I went with a little bit less and it was better. I sent my sheet to Martin who said he thought that it looked like I did everything properly. I need lactic acid in the mash on any beer I make. More for pale beers, less for darker beers.

Maybe you had a batch of unusually acidic base malt? BNW recommends a touch to much acid for me too. but usually its only .5-1.0 pH units off.

[Big Nake]

Maybe you had a batch of unusually acidic base malt? BNW recommends a touch to much acid for me too. but usually its only .5-1.0 pH units off.

Remember when you and I were futzing with it and PMing each other and at some point we couldn't get the pH to move? We were adding like a swimming pool's worth of acid and it stayed at 5.4 or something. The bottom line is that I learned something from using BNW and I am forever indebted to Martin for his suggestion for dealing with my water on pale beers. I don't have to consult BNW anymore but that doesn't mean I never will. I seem to have navigated through that period (and made many gallons of horrendous pale beer) and BNW was one of the tools that helped. It's all about the tools in your toolbox!

Edited by Village Taphouse, 14 April 2015 - 05:38 PM.

[neddles]

Remember when you and I were futzing with it and PMing each other and at some point we couldn't get the pH to move? We were adding like a swimming pool's worth of acid and it stayed at 5.4 or something. The bottom line is that I learned something from using BNW and I am forever indebted to Martin for his suggestion for dealing with my water on pale beers. I don't have to consult BNW anymore but that doesn't mean I never will. I seem to have navigated through that period (and made many gallons of horrendous pale beer) and BNW was one of the tools that helped. It's all about the tools in your toolbox!

If you are making it work and its repeatable I'm not sure what else you need. You've nailed your process. 

 

IIRC we couldn't get your version of BNW to work and we later realized it was outdated?

[Big Nake]

If you are making it work and its repeatable I'm not sure what else you need. You've nailed your process.  IIRC we couldn't get your version of BNW to work and we later realized it was outdated?

I did end up getting the latest version but I can't remember if my version that wouldn't work was older or newer. At some point, Martin told me to download the latest version and when I told him what version I had, he said it was the latest version.I agree on the repeatable process. That and being able to rely on your instruments (scales, thermometers, meters, etc) then things seem to fall into place. I don't pretend to have it all down but I do feel like I have gone down a crazy, winding path over the past 15 years and that path led to some sort of beer heaven!

[mabrungard]

The pH on Tab 1???? That pH is used to calculate bicarbonate and carbonate components from alkalinity. Its not used anywhere else in the program.  

[brewman]

So far I've used the amount it askes for and when I take a reading during the mash its been right on. So far it has worked great for me,  just trying to understand it more.

 

Thanks for all the great information.

 

Dan