39 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

On the one hand, you added 1.2 ounces of 9.3% Amarillo which I would think would give you a good shot of bitterness especially with such a "vanilla" (shall we say?) grain bill. Then 1.5 ounces of Saphir 3.2% (which seems quite low for Saphir to me... I have some now at 4.6% and had some earlier this year at 5.3%) at 10 and 0 which I would think would create some decent flavor. I like the 10 minute addition and it usually helps with late-flavor contributions. Brew on, my friend.

[Steve Urquell]

On the one hand, you added 1.2 ounces of 9.3% Amarillo which I would think would give you a good shot of bitterness especially with such a "vanilla" (shall we say?) grain bill. Then 1.5 ounces of Saphir 3.2% (which seems quite low for Saphir to me... I have some now at 4.6% and had some earlier this year at 5.3%) at 10 and 0 which I would think would create some decent flavor. I like the 10 minute addition and it usually helps with late-flavor contributions. Brew on, my friend.

I knew the hop additions were conservative for my tastebuds anyways but this hop is very mild too, so it's lacking for me. I'm thinking about keg-hopping with a couple ozs of Saphir just to see what happens.

[neddles]

My understanding, and someone correct me if I am wrong, is that the amount of flavorful aromatic oils in hops will generally (though not always) be proportionate to the AA%. So 3.2% may have been pretty mellow in the oil department too. Thoughts?

[Steve Urquell]

My understanding, and someone correct me if I am wrong, is that the amount of flavorful aromatic oils in hops will generally (though not always) be proportionate to the AA%. So 3.2% may have been pretty mellow in the oil department too. Thoughts?

I don't think AA transfers directly. That Hoppy German pils I sent you had 1.5AA Spalt Select in it. It was very prominent in flavor and resinyness to me.

[neddles]

I don't think AA transfers directly. That Hoppy German pils I sent you had 1.5AA Spalt Select in it. It was very prominent in flavor and resinyness to me.

I can't disagree with that.

[Big Nake]

Yeah, I think it lines up by hop variety... some have more hop oils and some have less. So that makes some hops better for late- and dry-hop applications and other hops less favorable. I always get a pretty good flavor from Saphir but I don't know that I ever tried to get a BIG punch and then whiffed with it. I will also say that I think that Amarillo is a nice bittering hop but it doesn't seem to come across as super-bitter to me. I have used it now in a couple pale ales and I expect a bitter character but it's pretty smooth. I know some say it's a waste of Amarillo to bitter with it but... whatevs.

[neddles]

Yeah, I think it lines up by hop variety... some have more hop oils and some have less. So that makes some hops better for late- and dry-hop applications and other hops less favorable. I always get a pretty good flavor from Saphir but I don't know that I ever tried to get a BIG punch and then whiffed with it. I will also say that I think that Amarillo is a nice bittering hop but it doesn't seem to come across as super-bitter to me. I have used it now in a couple pale ales and I expect a bitter character but it's pretty smooth. I know some say it's a waste of Amarillo to bitter with it but... whatevs.

some say? You can name me. Ill own it.

[Steve Urquell]

Agree on the amarillo as a somewhat weak bittering charge as well. I've been using CTZ for awhile and ran out/started using some old amarillo. Not getting the same bittering as I'm used to.

[Brauer]

I had an all Saphir Pilsner, with healthy flavor additions, that was quite delicious. I think I told the brewer that it was the best Pilsner I've had outside of Germany. I might have been in a slightly generous frame of mind, but it was very nice.

[Big Nake]

I had an all Saphir Pilsner, with healthy flavor additions, that was quite delicious. I think I told the brewer that it was the best Pilsner I've had outside of Germany. I might have been in a slightly generous frame of mind, but it was very nice.

It's a nice hop. I feel like it has a bit of a spice or slight edge to it that you don't get in many of the noble varieties. I'm about to dry hop a beer with some Saphir... looking forward to it.

[Brauer]

It's a nice hop. I feel like it has a bit of a spice or slight edge to it that you don't get in many of the noble varieties. I'm about to dry hop a beer with some Saphir... looking forward to it.

Perhaps that is why I like it. A Pilsner that I was particularly fond of, back in the '70's, had a very spicy hop flavor.

[Big Nake]

Perhaps that is why I like it. A Pilsner that I was particularly fond of, back in the '70's, had a very spicy hop flavor.

It reminds you that you can make anything that comes to mind and if a pilsner that has more kick to it is what you envision, you could so something that other brewers might not do. Make a "spicy pilsner" with Magnum (or whatever to bitter) and give it some good bitterness and then use something more unusual for late hops... Saphir, Mandarina Bavaria, any one of these other Hallertau varieties like Select (it's described as having a 'hoppy tang' to it) or even a bunch of Mt. Hood, Santiam, Ultra, Vanguard, Crystal, etc. It's one of the things that make brewing fun and once it's all said and done and you're drinking that beer with your friends, it doesn't matter what you used in the beer as long as it's good!

[Brauer]

It reminds you that you can make anything that comes to mind and if a pilsner that has more kick to it is what you envision, you could so something that other brewers might not do. Make a "spicy pilsner" 

I think that a lot of German Pilsners had a much bolder hop flavor than people associate with Pilsners, when I was a teenager. Of course, they also have a lot more hop flavor at home than they do by the time they get to the US. Like a lot of beers in a lot of countries, they have been dumbed-down following brewery consolidations to make them more mainstream or just plain replaced by more easy-drinking Exports.

[Steve Urquell]

I think this batch of Saphir may have just been weak. Last time I had some it had a Hallertau-like spicy aroma. This batch is more floral than spice.

[Big Nake]

I think that a lot of German Pilsners had a much bolder hop flavor than people associate with Pilsners, when I was a teenager. Of course, they also have a lot more hop flavor at home than they do by the time they get to the US. Like a lot of beers in a lot of countries, they have been dumbed-down following brewery consolidations to make them more mainstream or just plain replaced by more easy-drinking Exports.

Boo! 

[Steve Urquell]

A few more thoughts on this beer after having several pints over the last few days. It's very delicate. Tastes great when you haven't eaten or drank anything to compete with it. Otherwise it gets lost. I had an IPA the other night when I posted about it and could barely taste it.
I had a couple pints tonight before dinner and was pleased with it.

[Big Nake]

A few more thoughts on this beer after having several pints over the last few days. It's very delicate. Tastes great when you haven't eaten or drank anything to compete with it. Otherwise it gets lost. I had an IPA the other night when I posted about it and could barely taste it.
I had a couple pints tonight before dinner and was pleased with it.

Yep. Been there and done that many times. Food, a cold, medication or other beers will futz with it. If I make something light, I try to make it the first (or only) beer I have so that I can taste it. Glad to hear it came around.

[Steve Urquell]

Yep. Been there and done that many times. Food, a cold, medication or other beers will futz with it. If I make something light, I try to make it the first (or only) beer I have so that I can taste it. Glad to hear it came around.

Thanks Ken. This one threw me. You know when something SHOULD be good from experience. Just didn't expect this one to be so mild. It has a nice sweetness that lingers on the sides of your tounge.

[neddles]

Same here on the beer drinking order. I recently (last week) had a half pint of Drez's Chinook-Citra Pale Ale (awesome beer) on hand while kegging my English Summer Ale. Tasted a sample of the summer ale after kegging and thought "BLAH! Bland! What went wrong here! All the other samples were good!" I was tempted not to even bother carbonating it. But then remembered that my buds might be off and I should give it a chance. It turned out to be a really nice beer just a fair bit more delicate than the pale ale.

 

Another thing I have experienced quite frequently is tannic presence depending on what you are eating. We were snacking on some fresh roasted walnuts tonight which have a bit of tannin from the skins around the nut. Wash those down with beer, any beer, and the tannic presence goes way up. Very drying on the tongue. I have had other foods do it too just not as strong as walnuts.

[Big Nake]

Same here on the beer drinking order. I recently (last week) had a half pint of Drez's Chinook-Citra Pale Ale (awesome beer) on hand while kegging my English Summer Ale. Tasted a sample of the summer ale after kegging and thought "BLAH! Bland! What went wrong here! All the other samples were good!" I was tempted not to even bother carbonating it. But then remembered that my buds might be off and I should give it a chance. It turned out to be a really nice beer just a fair bit more delicate than the pale ale.
 
Another thing I have experienced quite frequently is tannic presence depending on what you are eating. We were snacking on some fresh roasted walnuts tonight which have a bit of tannin from the skins around the nut. Wash those down with beer, any beer, and the tannic presence goes way up. Very drying on the tongue. I have had other foods do it too just not as strong as walnuts.

Yeah, good stuff right there. Always try to think about what you have eaten, etc. if you taste a beer and think it's off. It's probably not. We also keep our hops in the freezer and assume that when we use them that they are fresh enough to make the beer that we envision. But my guess is that hops lose their mojo if they have sat around and maybe the beer is milder than you might think it should be. Sometimes if I'm using older hops, I'll bump up the amounts to account for that but the bottom line is that we don't know. We can see their color and smell them but otherwise we don't know how fresh or potent they are.