32 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

Going back to this… If this is true then carapils/carafoam would offer a predictable dextrin profile without sweetness, no? Assuming I am not the only one who finds them to have zero sweetness. 

 

seems like a great reason to use it.  in the past it's always been, "why not just raise the mash temp?"

[Brauer]

Going back to this… If this is true then carapils/carafoam would offer a predictable dextrin profile without sweetness, no? Assuming I am not the only one who finds them to have zero sweetness. 

I've had success with reasonable amounts of Carafoam, but I've read that even they are altered by mashing. It seems to me that a lot of other Crystals add a sweetness that doesn't ferment out. That might have something to do with toasting the complex dextrins, modifying some so that they are unavailable to amylase or just inefficiently digested. 

 

Another approach is to use an Alpha rest, to make sure the starches are well gelatinized and side chains are as short as possible.

[neddles]

I've had success with reasonable amounts of Carafoam, but I've read that even they are altered by mashing. It seems to me that a lot of other Crystals add a sweetness that doesn't ferment out. That might have something to do with toasting the complex dextrins, modifying some so that they are unavailable to amylase or just inefficiently digested. 

 

Another approach is to use an Alpha rest, to make sure the starches are well gelatinized and side chains are as short as possible.

So perhaps steeping carapils/carafoam would be an effective way to get body with minimal/no sweetness? That way it is not subjected to the enzymes in the mash.

[positiveContact]

So perhaps steeping carapils/carafoam would be an effective way to get body with minimal/no sweetness? That way it is not subjected to the enzymes in the mash.

 

I would expect enzymes in the mash to make it more fermentable (breaking down complex sugars).

[neddles]

I would expect enzymes in the mash to make it more fermentable (breaking down complex sugars).

Right, and that's what Brauer alluded to above. I'm suggesting leaving it out of the mash entirely, steep it instead to maximize body and minimize sweetness.

[positiveContact]

Right, and that's what Brauer alluded to above. I'm suggesting leaving it out of the mash entirely, steep it instead to maximize body and minimize sweetness.

 

I could see it increasing body but why would it minimize sweetness?

[neddles]

I could see it increasing body but why would it minimize sweetness?

Dextrins are generally flavorless and not sweet. But as Brauer suggested they may be altered by the mashing process to yield either simpler sweeter sugars/dextrins. Further back in the discussion he suggested the dextrine produced by a higher mash temp may yield some sweetness depending on the mash dynamics and dextrin profile produced. Steep some carapils and it will not be sweet. Thus minimizing sweetness contributed per unit of body when compared to other available methods of enhancing body.

[positiveContact]

Dextrins are generally flavorless and not sweet. But as Brauer suggested they may be altered by the mashing process to yield either simpler sweeter sugars/dextrins. Further back in the discussion he suggested the dextrine produced by a higher mash temp may yield some sweetness depending on the mash dynamics and dextrin profile produced. Steep some carapils and it will not be sweet. Thus minimizing sweetness contributed per unit of body when compared to other available methods of enhancing body.

 

sounds like an experiment is in order

[Brauer]

I just don't know. The yield from dextrin malt goes up with mashing, which might just mean that steeping would add starch. A short beta and long alpha rest seems to increase body. As does a high mash temp., but it can get a little over the top without a short beta rest, first.

[neddles]

I just don't know. The yield from dextrin malt goes up with mashing, which might just mean that steeping would add starch. A short beta and long alpha rest seems to increase body. As does a high mash temp., but it can get a little over the top without a short beta rest, first.

Briess says it is good for steeping. Doesnt seem like they would recommend adding starch to the beer but who knows? Also shouldnt the starches in the carapils be converted already?

[Brauer]

Briess says it is good for steeping. Doesnt seem like they would recommend adding starch to the beer but who knows? Also shouldnt the starches in the carapils be converted already?

There's a couple experiments floating around that showed something like a 25% increase in yield from mashing Crystal and Dextrine malts. Apparently these malts are not completely converted prior to kilning.

[neddles]

There's a couple experiments floating around that showed something like a 25% increase in yield from mashing Crystal and Dextrine malts. Apparently these malts are not completely converted prior to kilning.

Ah, I see.
Well thats interesting. If you dont mind, post up a link if you have one.

[Brauer]

Ah, I see.
Well thats interesting. If you dont mind, post up a link if you have one.

I'd have to search for it. Homebrewtalk, I think. Otherwise, it's just in my less than reliable head. I seem to remember one of the maltsters saying that there dextrine malt was steepable, but to mash it for "full benefit". Briess, maybe?