32 replies to this topic

[Poptop]

Hey Fellas, not sure if I'm going to ask this right but here it goes. If I make a batch that I don't want terminal gravity to fall as far as the yeast is notorious for, does it make sense to rack and keg once the gravity gets to where I want it? For example, if after a week of fermentation I hit my goal of 1.010 should I go ahead and keg?

[positiveContact]

I think I'd typically just try to create conditions that favor the yeast finishing about where I want it.  Like mash higher or use more crystal.  I might also ferment cooler.  It would really depend on the recipe though - what are we talking about here?

[HVB]

what are we talking about here?

 

Hit us with that page 3 info early ..

[Poptop]

"I always like to keep my audience riveted" ~ C. Little ~ Blazing SaddlesThe beer in question is one I've been threatening to make for a month and couldn't get to it this weekend but sights are set for next Friday/Saturday.10 G's of Saison. My pulling off 10 gallons allows my tun to max around 20#'s of grain and I'm there. I'm electing to NOT add sugar to keep the malt backbone. I intend on mashing high, say 153 F but I'm concerned the yeast(s); Belle and Blend will drop out to 004 or lower which would take my 1.047 OG and send me into the 6% range. I want to keep this batch around 5. I know we're not talking about much but with 10# of grain per batch I don't want a thin beer. Well, not too thin. It is a Saison afterall. Make sense? Or am I not getting something right?

[positiveContact]

"I always like to keep my audience riveted" ~ C. Little ~ Blazing SaddlesThe beer in question is one I've been threatening to make for a month and couldn't get to it this weekend but sights are set for next Friday/Saturday.10 G's of Saison. My pulling off 10 gallons allows my tun to max around 20#'s of grain and I'm there. I'm electing to NOT add sugar to keep the malt backbone. I intend on mashing high, say 153 F but I'm concerned the yeast(s); Belle and Blend will drop out to 004 or lower which would take my 1.047 OG and send me into the 6% range. I want to keep this batch around 5. I know we're not talking about much but with 10# of grain per batch I don't want a thin beer. Well, not too thin. It is a Saison afterall. Make sense? Or am I not getting something right?

 

153F is high? 

 

I'd go even higher.  Maybe add some carapils if you are worried about it.

[HVB]

153F is high? 

 

I'd go even higher.  Maybe add some carapils if you are worried about it.

When I read high I was expecting 158 range.  Some flaked oats may be useful too to add back in some body/mouthfeel.

[Poptop]

Okay, so what's high to you in terms of high and a Saison with my demographic?

[MakeMeHoppy]

Just a thought the ABV is only part of the equation. If you do keg it early I would certainly recommend pulling a sample and seeing if it tastes good at that point. Since you are kegging I don't see a problem with leaving some fermentable sugars there as bottle bombs are not an issue. Let us know what you do and how it comes out.

[BlKtRe]

"I always like to keep my audience riveted" ~ C. Little ~ Blazing SaddlesThe beer in question is one I've been threatening to make for a month and couldn't get to it this weekend but sights are set for next Friday/Saturday.10 G's of Saison. My pulling off 10 gallons allows my tun to max around 20#'s of grain and I'm there. I'm electing to NOT add sugar to keep the malt backbone. I intend on mashing high, say 153 F but I'm concerned the yeast(s); Belle and Blend will drop out to 004 or lower which would take my 1.047 OG and send me into the 6% range. I want to keep this batch around 5. I know we're not talking about much but with 10# of grain per batch I don't want a thin beer. Well, not too thin. It is a Saison afterall. Make sense? Or am I not getting something right?

 

Id reduce the malt bill, mash low, and achieve a beer in the same ABV you are looking for but a FG below 1.010 where a Saison should be. Just my 2cents. 

[positiveContact]

Id reduce the malt bill, mash low, and achieve a beer in the same ABV you are looking for but a FG below 1.010 where a Saison should be. Just my 2cents. 

 

not a bad way to do it either.  why fight the yeast?

[Poptop]

Thanks fellas, I do value your input very much.

[denny]

Hey Fellas, not sure if I'm going to ask this right but here it goes. If I make a batch that I don't want terminal gravity to fall as far as the yeast is notorious for, does it make sense to rack and keg once the gravity gets to where I want it? For example, if after a week of fermentation I hit my goal of 1.010 should I go ahead and keg?

 

Not if you're not sure it's done.  It will continue to ferment unless you somehow manage to filter every bit of yeast out of it.  The best way to control FG is through recipe design.

Id reduce the malt bill, mash low, and achieve a beer in the same ABV you are looking for but a FG below 1.010 where a Saison should be. Just my 2cents. 

 

THIS^^^.  If you want a lower ABV, use less grain,

[positiveContact]

Not if you're not sure it's done.  It will continue to ferment unless you somehow manage to filter every bit of yeast out of it.  The best way to control FG is through recipe design.

 

THIS^^^.  If you want a lower ABV, use less grain,

 

he also seemed interested in not too dry of a finish but maybe I misread that.  mash temp and grain selection would probably help there.

[Poptop]

Dry enough to be in the Saison taste. My worry about not too dry is due to the amount of grain I can successfully work with in my mash tun. I've beaten this recipe design up so much over the past weeks I think I owe it to myself to stay my course. I might work with a different mash temp though.

[Big Nake]

If you don't want it to finish lower than 1.010, it seems that mash temp is the best way to handle it as opposed to adding things to the grain bill that may not belong in this style of beer... which I know very little about. You could add unfermentables, use a lower-attenuating yeast (doesn't sound like an option here), mash higher or do what you suggested and try to stop the fermentation when it hits the number you want. You could add something (anyone care to refresh my memory? *) that will kill the yeast or you could try to crash cool it when you're a couple ticks higher than you want it to be... assuming that the yeast would continue as the beer cooled and would eventually stop once it got COLD. I personally don't care for that option but I think it would work.* Potassium sorbate? Never tried it but thought about it when I wanted to add some honey without turning the beer into rocket fuel and still keeping some amount of honey character.

Edited by Village Taphouse, 26 May 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Deerslyr]

Interesting read here.  

 

I think you are better served through recipe design.  A higher mash will help.  I've mashed at around 156. Don't know if I've been higher.  It will be one factor.  A thicker mash will also help keep fermentables lower.  Given that you are maxing out your tun with 20# of grain, this will be easier to achieve than if you wanted to thin it out and have higher amount of fermentables.

 

Denny is right... unless you filter out all yeast, it's still going to continue to do its thing even in a keg.  I'm actually using to my advantage with a Hefe right now... Before primary was complete, I racked to the keg to provide the carbonation.  Doing well... but I don't think this is what you are looking for as it still ferments the wort to the designed terminal gravity.  You are asking how to tame a single cell organism that has not really evolved?  

 

The only other thing I can think of is using potassium metabisulfate that would kill the yeast.  Not sure how much you would need, or what the effects would be (on the flavor profile), but you are looking to kill the yeast.  Anyone else have a thought on using a metabisulfate?  IIRC, that is the active ingredient in a Campden Tablet, no?

Edited by Deerslyr, 26 May 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[neddles]

Let fermentation run it's proper course and then if you feel it needs the extra gravity (for whatever reason) add maltodextrin to taste/body etc. 

Edited by nettles, 26 May 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[Deerslyr]

Here is a good page on metabisulfite and sorbate, and how they are used with wine.  Principles are still the same.

 

https://www.eckraus....op-fermentation

 

Might not get you where you want to be.  Best bet is still using the design to help achieve the goal.

Edited by Deerslyr, 26 May 2015 - 01:37 PM.

[BlKtRe]

How about adding some flake to get that mouth feel you are looking for without sacrificing a style that finishes to sweet? This would sorta trick your pallet into thinking the beer is not as dry as it really is. I did this with my session NZ Pils posted in the recipe section. 

[Big Nake]

How about adding some flake to get that mouth feel you are looking for without sacrificing a style that finishes to sweet? This would sorta trick your pallet into thinking the beer is not as dry as it really is. I did this with my session NZ Pils posted in the recipe section.

Let fermentation run it's proper course and then if you feel it needs the extra gravity (for whatever reason) add maltodextrin to taste/body etc.

I like both of these too. I had a recipe for a Scottish 60 +/- that called for Maltodextrin to provide more body. It has no flavor contribution that I know of and it did its job.