66 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

Me giving you shit about overkill is the definition of throwing stones in glass houses. 

 

I just can't imagine keeping that many beers going at once.  I had 6 taps going for a while and it was a ton of work just to manage that.  I also found that I would end up picking a favorite and just keep going back to that tap.  Some beers would just be on there forever and be neglected and those taps would get all munged up....and the fruit flies!!!  Gah!

 

What I need is a NEIGHBOR with 14 taps...uhhhh...what's your address?

 

*checks Trulia*

 

I usually have about 6 taps going.

[gnef]

Me giving you shit about overkill is the definition of throwing stones in glass houses. 

 

I just can't imagine keeping that many beers going at once.  I had 6 taps going for a while and it was a ton of work just to manage that.  I also found that I would end up picking a favorite and just keep going back to that tap.  Some beers would just be on there forever and be neglected and those taps would get all munged up....and the fruit flies!!!  Gah!

 

What I need is a NEIGHBOR with 14 taps...uhhhh...what's your address?

 

*checks Trulia*

Haha! The forward sealing faucets work great, especially the older ones. I have never had any issues with stuck faucets. I do have issues with fruit flies, but that will be a battle either way.

 

If you are ever on your way to Atlanta, you are welcome to come by!

 

I have two different versions of the 525 even (two are the older ones with plastic bearing cups, and the other 5 are an updated model with stainless bearing cups), and they all work well for me.

 

I still need to do my tests to see if it is worth it to move to the barrier tubing as I want to, or whether I should consider going to 5/16'' OD john guest fittings for the connections in the walk-in so that I can use the 3/16" ID barrier tubing. We'll see. I am really hoping that this setup works well!

[BlKtRe]

Only faucets I have that don't leak are my original VM's. Never have been rebuilt either.

[positiveContact]

Only faucets I have that don't leak are my original VM's. Never have been rebuilt either.

 

that's all I've got - still working great!

[3rd party JKor]

With regard to the thre title:

1. Your plan IS crazy
2. You SHOULD be happy with what you have
3. You never asked if we thought it was good idea!

[gnef]

Well, I did more testing today. I've come to a couple of conclusions:

 

1. I need a larger sample size, so I will try to do 2-4 more sets before coming to a firm conclusion.

2. I need to chill the coffin box now. I am thinking about building a modification to one of those tower chiller builds.

3. Once I do those two, I need to do more testing, and also check the gauge on my secondary regulator inside the walk-in. I think it may be reading low, as some of my other faucets are starting to pour a bit foamy, and if those are starting to pour a bit foamy, that will throw off my data for the new setups. I have more secondary regulators that I can use to test. I also still need to convert these to Push to connect fittings in the mean time.

 

Observations:

1. First mini pour is very foamy, even at increased resistance. I can hear gas going through, which means it is coming out of solution in the lines. I have come to realize this is due to temperature differences (hence conclusion number 2 above). I have never chilled the coffin box, and since I always threw out the first couple ounces, those first ounces chilled the line and faucet enough so that when I would pour a regular pint, there wouldn't be any temperature issue.

2. Second pour immediately after was fairly normal. Still more head than I would've wanted, but within reason, especially if the beer itself is somewhat overcarbonated.

 

Also, since I don't want to waste too much beer each time, I am not doing full pint pours, just into small sampler glasses, maybe around 3-4 ounces in total, so less into the glass. The smaller glassware also effects my perception of the pour.

 

on a sidenote, I have also decided that I need to simplify my gas distribution setup. I currently use a 5 or 6 port manifold, but have to come to realize, I really just use a single ball lock and single pin lock when gassing the kegs back up (I don't keep the gas on, I just go into the walk-in every now and then to top off the kegs with CO2). I would like to change out my larger manifold for either a smaller manifold with just two outlets or attach a Wye to the secondary regulator directly. I also want to add a more robust check valve, and found some Wye and manifold setups that have the check valve integrated. I have also found a flare adapter check valve that I may use instead.

[gnef]

A quick update. I have built the coffin box chiller. It took two iterations, but I just installed the newest fan, and it is moving a good amount of air now. I first tried with an 80mm computer fan, but it couldn't produce the pressure needed to get through all the piping. I ended up getting a 12v bilge blower off amazon. I bought a power supply too, but the power supply was DOA, and I realized I had spare 12v power supplies from an old computer hardware, and found one that was rated correctly.

 

Since I just installed it, I will wait a while before checking temperatures. I'll go down in a few hours and see how things are progressing, and then sometime tomorrow as well. I have an infrared thermometer (the one posted about in the PH a while ago), so that will give me a good idea. If it works well, I'd also expect to see a good amount of condensation form as well.

 

Once I am satisfied that the faucets are at the right temp, I can do more tests with my single line, and then later when I get a few more faucets and change out the lines on those.

[gnef]

Another quick update. The coffin box chiller was a bust.

 

I checked this morning, the faucets were no cooler than room temp, and the window AC unit was frozen.

 

I think the problem is that the coffin box itself isn't as well insulated or sealed, and as air moved through it constantly with the chiller, it increased the humidity of the chamber.

 

I will still move forward with some testing and renovating more taps for the short term to see how well it works for a while, I think, and then figure out if I want to renovate everything else.

[3rd party JKor]

Sorry, I just skimmed the thread.  What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this coffin box chiller?  I think I'm missing details.  Is the chiller keeping kegs cold and you're having issues with the taps getting too warm because they are in a tower?

 

Any time you're using an AC for below ambient service you really, really need a good seal.  Insulation will obviously help as well, because the AC will cycle less, but if the seal is bad you are toast.  When i was running my ferment chamber I would also put a bunch of DampRid in the chamber to help keep the humidity down.  You're in Atlanta, so you REALLY need a good seal and humidity control.  FYI DampRid is just CaCl, you can buy bulk bags of ice melt and it's the same thing for much, much cheaper (just check to make sure the brand you're getting is pure CaCl).

[gnef]

the coffin box chiller is for the shanks and faucets. I have been wanting to change out the faucets for perlick 650ss, and also use 1/4''x3/8" bev seal ultra. The flow control faucets will allow me to regulate the resistance so that I don't have to worry about the lowered resistance of the tubing. The tubing is sized to match my current john guest fittings that I use.

 

The problem that I came upon while testing one converted setup, was that the first pour was still pretty foamy, which I determined was primarily due to the coffin box being warm, and the faucets being warm initially.

 

So, to combat that, I built a forced air cooling line into the coffin box, but like I said above, it caused the AC unit to freeze up.

 

I am thinking more that I will just have to be happy with foam initially while not throwing away the first two ounces of the beer. I really am growing to dislike seeing my pitcher for the castoff so that I don't taste the plastic taint from the lines.

[3rd party JKor]

It's hard to get rid of the foam on first pour unless you're cooling the faucets and the shanks.  Obviously the shank is the more important of the two since it has more thermal mass, but the faucet has enough to start the foam and then its a chain reaction from there.  When I had my taps running I would pour about a 1/4 pint, let the foaming die down for a little bit (20 seconds?) then pour the rest.  Just giving it that time to stop actively foaming (and forming nucleation sites for the incoming beer) was enough to allow me to pour a good pint the first time.

[positiveContact]

I don't really have this foaming issue.  even on my dorm fridge with a tower on it I only get a little bit of foaming on the first pour.  there is nothing actively cooling the tower.  it's just insulated with neoprene or something similar.

[3rd party JKor]

I always had it on my towers.  Even when I went to the collar and the shanks were all inside the keezer.  It was better after that change, but still had a bit of foaminess when the faucets were warm.

[positiveContact]

I always had it on my towers.  Even when I went to the collar and the shanks were all inside the keezer.  It was better after that change, but still had a bit of foaminess when the faucets were warm.

 

an amount that was a problem though?  At my house it basically means I leave the glass tipped for most of the pour.  On subsequent pours I need to straighten the glass out more to get some head on the beer.

[3rd party JKor]

an amount that was a problem though?  At my house it basically means I leave the glass tipped for most of the pour.  On subsequent pours I need to straighten the glass out more to get some head on the beer.

 

 

Not a huge issue, no. 

 

I have a feeling gnef is a perfectionist when it comes to this, so he wants perfect liquid gold to spring forth from the first nanosecond. 

[positiveContact]

Not a huge issue, no. 

 

I have a feeling gnef is a perfectionist when it comes to this, so he wants perfect liquid gold to spring forth from the first nanosecond. 

 

RDWHAHB?  oh no wait, that might stress him out if there is too much foam!!!

[gnef]

Haha. I don't mind too much for my personal pours, but I care more about when guests come over and aren't accustomed to foam initially. I also often take just small tasters, and it does become cumbersome a bit when it is 1/3-1/2 foam.

 

This journey all started so that I wouldn't throw out the first 2 oz of the pour of the day. I think I am settled on being ok with the foam for now, and proceeding with my tests.

 

I've been thinking of other methods to chill the shank as well, but those are much more long term (copper wrapped around the shanks, with glycol pumped through with sump in the walk-in). I'm not going to consider that for a while though. At least, I think I won't.

[gnef]

Well, the walk-in is down to 44F now. I removed the fan assembly and all associated piping. I decided to go ahead and do a full pour on the one converted setup, and honestly, I am pretty happy with the result, so I don't think I am going to pursue chilling the coffin box any further. I plan on the road I set before and convert 2-3 more setups, do more testing, and then decide whether to continue (I am pretty sure I will, I really want to use this barrier tubing!).

 

Here is a photo of the test I did tonight. This is the first pour in maybe a week or so. Most of the foam came first because the shank, faucet, and some of the tubing was warm in the coffin box:

 

[3rd party JKor]

Ain't nothin wrong with that!

[gnef]

well, I've hit a bit of a setback for advancing this project. 

 

Every year, I have to reseal the rigid foam on the walk-in, and this year was no different. I spent time to retape edges, seams, and the nail spots. There was water that was seeping through. It only is a problem when the humidity is high.

 

The ac unit was still freezing up, so I decided to add a new layer to the ceiling where most of the leaks were, and I used a different type of rigid foam, used great stuff, sealed it all up, and let it cure.

 

The AC unit couldn't get below 60F after this though, and it was only producing a 5 degree differential, so I had to replace the window AC unit. The new unit is only 5k btu, but it is working well so far, and in less than 2 days, I am down to 44F. I am hoping to get it back down to 38F as I did a long time ago, but I will settle for 42F if that is where it is more comfortable.

 

Needless to say, the costs of the insulation and window AC unit ate into the money I was setting aside for new faucets and fittings.

 

Looks like the testing will be delayed a bit longer. I hope to sell some kegs so that I can jumpstart some of the testing, but we'll see how that goes!