70 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I read through the other dunkel thread currently on page 2.  I saw the recipes there but I wasn't sure if there were any updates.  I also saw an AHA forum thread with Denny from 2010 which I assume could be outdated.  When I was in Munich, the Augustiner, Hacker-Pschorr and Hofbrau Dunkels were very good.  I don't think I had the chance to try Ayinger, unfortunately.  I have some 2308 Munich Lager yeast up and running and wanted to try to make a batch.  If I just throw out something that I came up with after reading about 10 threads and articles, would you experts throw some guidance and direction my way?  I want to make this as simple as possible and I really like the character I get from Carafa Special III.

 

Munich Dunkel

 

6 lbs Best Malz Munich (10L)   [62%]

3.50 lbs Avangard German Pilsner  [36%]

3 ounces German Carafa Special III  [2%]

1.5 ounces Hallertau 3.2% for 60

1 ounce Hallertau 3.2% for 20

2308 Munich Lager Yeast

 

OG: 1.054, FG: 1.014, IBU: 25, SRM: 17, ABV: 5.2%

 

I would probably mash around 150° single infusion because I want the beer to finish dry and all that dark munich might have some lingering sweetness which I'm trying to avoid.  The pilsner malt should help with that too.  Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[Brauer]

I'd make that recipe just like it is (OG is a little high for my preference, but that's me). It looks like a nice Dunkel.

[positiveContact]

that's about how most dunkels go.  the variables typically seem to be the type of munich (light or dark) and then the ratio of pils to munich.  after that pick the yeast of your choice.  the hops are fairly set (not much flavor or aroma so just IBUs to balance it out).

[Big Nake]

Thanks for the replies.

Does anyone know what yeast would be the most preferred for a Munich Dunkel? As much as I use 2308 and as "Munichy" as it is, I rarely see it mentioned for Dunkels. I admit that I don't have much experience with 833, 838, 920 and some of the other White Labs yeast that might be used for a Dunkel. Does anyone know if any of those WL strains are considered the "Augustiner" strain of lager yeast? That would make me buy it, I think. I was lucky enough to get some Augustiner yeast from the yeast bank that MtnBrewer has access to but I did not make a Dunkel with it.

[positiveContact]

I really like 833 (Ayinger yeast) for this style.  In fact I had a couple last night.  I'm not sure if any of the yeasts we can readily acquire are Augustiner or not.

[neddles]

2308=838. Augustiner not available as far as I have seen.

[Brauer]

833 is a great choice. 838 sounds good, but I haven't tried it. Mexican and Prague lager yeasts work well, as does 2124. That's all over the map, but as I've had them around Germany, Czech and Switzerland, I've found it to be a variable style that could be fitting to any of those yeasts. I like the malt forward versions a lot, but a crisper, drier yeast with a small finishing hop makes a delicious version, too.

If I was going to make a higher gravity one, like this, I would probably default to a crisper yeast, but I think a malt-forward yeast might make a more Augustiner-like beer.

WLP860 might be Augustiner, but it isn't available at the moment. White Labs is supposed to be releasing the Andechs yeast in January (Lager X). That would be a good one to try on a Dunkel and Helles.

[Big Nake]

833 is a great choice. 838 sounds good, but I haven't tried it. Mexican and Prague lager yeasts work well, as does 2124. That's all over the map, but as I've had them around Germany, Czech and Switzerland, I've found it to be a variable style that could be fitting to any of those yeasts. I like the malt forward versions a lot, but a crisper, drier yeast with a small finishing hop makes a delicious version, too.

If I was going to make a higher gravity one, like this, I would probably default to a crisper yeast, but I think a malt-forward yeast might make a more Augustiner-like beer.

WLP860 might be Augustiner, but it isn't available at the moment. White Labs is supposed to be releasing the Andechs yeast in January (Lager X). That would be a good one to try on a Dunkel and Helles.

What I have found in some of the other similar styles I make (Jamil's Vienna, a dark lager that I make frequently), a slight increase of sulfate helps to make the beer crisper and the finish slightly drier. I'm talking about small increases and it seems to have a positive impact on the balance and refreshment-factor. I will probably look at the last few batches I made of Jamil's Vienna and look at my gypsum addition and go with that or possibly bump it up just a notch. Cheers and thanks.

Edited by Village Taphouse, 24 August 2015 - 09:27 AM.

[mabrungard]

I agree with the modest use of sulfate to aid in drying the finish. Beers that don't have any sulfate tend to finish poorly and linger too long with sweetness. Not the kind of beer that invites you to finish the glass.

[Big Nake]

I agree with the modest use of sulfate to aid in drying the finish. Beers that don't have any sulfate tend to finish poorly and linger too long with sweetness. Not the kind of beer that invites you to finish the glass.

Well said. The slight dryness in the finish makes you want to go back for more. A sweeter finish starts to build up after awhile and before you know it, you want to switch to a different beer. Cheers Martin.

[3rd party JKor]

I prefer less Munich, but you know your own preferences better than me.  

[positiveContact]

I prefer less Munich, but you know your own preferences better than me.  

 

agreed.  the malt overwhelms me sometimes.

[Big Nake]

I prefer less Munich, but you know your own preferences better than me.  

I know what you're saying and I have experienced that too. I'm going to try it this way but with a low mash temp and a decent dose of gypsum, I might be able to keep it from getting to be too much. That beer is coming up next with 2308.

[Big Nake]

Posting this pic here so it's along with the recipe. This beer turned out fantastic and I plan to make another batch of it but with the Augustiner yeast (Wyeast 2352... a private strain) and I don't think I would change a thing. If I tap a glass of this and hold it up to the light, it's unreal how clear it is and how much RED you get with the Weyermann Carafa Special III. Also... the amount of Munich was mentioned earlier in this thread and what happened here is exactly what I was hoping: Good balance. The fact that I cut the Munich with pilsner, mashed a little lower and used some gypsum in the mash equates to a very good balance in this beer where there is good body and mouthfeel but a slightly crisp finish which brings it all together.

[HVB]

So the Munich you used would be considered dark Munich correct?  Planning to give a Dunkel a try soon and my plan is 60/40 Weyerman Munich II/ Pils with whatever % of midnight wheat or carafa SP I need to bump the color up.  Hopping will be pretty much what you have here.

[Big Nake]

Yes, my Munich was Avangard (or Best?) and it was the 9-12°L stuff as opposed to the 6-8°L.  This beer turned out fantastic.  I'm pretty happy with all of the variables especially since I've never made a dunkel.  The color may be just the slightest bit more pale than a true dunkel but that's not bothering me.  I think I put the grain bill together properly and I think I hopped it right.  The water composition seems to work well and I think I mashed it correctly too.  It's not heavy at all... it's really nicely balanced and I've been putting little dents into the keg here or there.  Another version will be coming up soon with the Augustiner 2352 yeast.  Cheers.

[HVB]

Thanks.  I was waiting to brew this till WLP835 came out hoping to re-create the Dunkel I had at Andechs but I brew one now and then one when the yeast comes out and compare. 

[SchwanzBrewer]

Dammit. Ken, your beers are too gat damn tasty looking!

[Big Nake]

Dammit. Ken, your beers are too gat damn tasty looking!

Tell you what... send me some of that Tampa-area warmth and I'll send you some dunkel! 65° there. 15° here.

[BlKtRe]

Any reason not to use 2124?