27 replies to this topic

[neddles]

This is a CYBI recipe for Black Sheep's Riggwelter from several years ago. Never had the beer but it sounds delicious and the recipe looks like something I would really enjoy. Been eyeing this one for a long time and figure it should be real nice for the change in weather (which seems to already be here.) Let me know your thoughts and if you've had the original beer as it is available in the US. Probably make this tonight or tomorrow morning. This may or may not get cask conditioned.

 

6 gallons

 

OG 1.056

SRM 19

IBU 36

 

80% Crisp MO

9% Flaked Wheat

6% Crisp C77

5% Crisp Pale Chocolate (225L)

 

Mash at 148F/40 and 158F/30

 

28g Challenger @60

25g EKG in whirlpool

 

WY1469 West Yorkshire Ale

-ferment at 66-67F

 

ETA: Water pH target 5.4 Ca-33, Na-50, SO4-57, Cl-80 

Edited by nettles, 24 August 2015 - 01:07 PM.

[neddles]

Ah crap, move to recipe forum please!

[Brauer]

I've had a couple of their beers on cask at NERAX. This and the Best Bitter, I believe. Unfortunately, it's been a couple years and I can't remember any specifics other than that I remember that it was a brewery worth remembering. The recipe looks intriguing, though.

[neddles]

I've had a couple of their beers on cask at NERAX. This and the Best Bitter, I believe. Unfortunately, it's been a couple years and I can't remember any specifics other than that I remember that it was a brewery worth remembering. The recipe looks intriguing, though.

 

Would love to be near a festival like that one. 

 

Boiling this now. Brauer, am I reading Kai's chart correctly? The mash for this beer was 2.67qt/#. I did 148F/35 and 158F/35 and I ended up with a pre boil of 1.050, higher than anticipated (but obviously I anticipated wrong.) Anyhow, that looks like essentially 100% conversion efficiency… *if* I am understanding this chart. No-sparge BIAB in case you didn't remember.

https://www.braukais...sion_Efficiency

 

I also entered the data in his spreadsheet and it spit out 103%. Probably as a result of assumptions made in the calculator about the grain used and moisture content.

 

ETA: Unrelated side note. We have talked about this before but I continue to see more intact husks with Maris Otter than I get with either American 2-row or continental pils. I wish I would have snapped a pic of this. 

Edited by nettles, 25 August 2015 - 08:07 AM.

[HVB]

That is how I read that chart.  I am extremely jealous of your numbers.  Last week with my double crush and 145/158 I got .. wait for it .. wait for it .. 70%

[neddles]

That is how I read that chart.  I am extremely jealous of your numbers.  Last week with my double crush and 145/158 I got .. wait for it .. wait for it .. 70%

Well I guess I just want to make sure the numbers are correct but I think they are. That 100% is conversion efficiency, which after draining the bag/grain absorption came out to 80.9% into the kettle. Your 70% is into the kettle, no?

 

Also, if you are leaving that much sugar in the tun have you considered doing another runoff for starter worts?

[SchwanzBrewer]

It's definitely possible to get 100% conversion efficiency. It's the lautering where it decreases. Also, I'd bet that your water/grist ratio wasn't that exact. You're in the ball park, but probably a pint low, which is hard to notice.

[HVB]

Well I guess I just want to make sure the numbers are correct but I think they are. That 100% is conversion efficiency, which after draining the bag/grain absorption came out to 80.9% into the kettle. Your 70% is into the kettle, no?

 

Also, if you are leaving that much sugar in the tun have you considered doing another runoff for starter worts?

 

Yes 70% into the kettle.  The odd thing is it is the same for batch with a braid, manifold or BIAB.

[positiveContact]

Yes 70% into the kettle.  The odd thing is it is the same for batch with a braid, manifold or BIAB.

 

I always ask this so I apologize if you've answered it - what was your conversion efficiency?

[HVB]

I always ask this so I apologize if you've answered it - what was your conversion efficiency?

Going by memory it was about 90-92%

[neddles]

It's definitely possible to get 100% conversion efficiency. It's the lautering where it decreases. Also, I'd bet that your water/grist ratio wasn't that exact. You're in the ball park, but probably a pint low, which is hard to notice.

Actually the opposite. I used slightly more water. Beersmith told me to use 31.78 qts. of water which is where the 2.67qt/# came from. I'm not that anal so I used 32 qts (8gal.) Changes the actual ratio insignificantly to from 2.67qt/# to 2.69qt/#

 

 

Yes 70% into the kettle.  The odd thing is it is the same for batch with a braid, manifold or BIAB.

 

Yeah I agree that seems quite odd.

Edited by nettles, 25 August 2015 - 08:38 AM.

[Brauer]

Would love to be near a festival like that one.

Boiling this now. Brauer, am I reading Kai's chart correctly? The mash for this beer was 2.67qt/#. I did 148F/35 and 158F/35 and I ended up with a pre boil of 1.050, higher than anticipated (but obviously I anticipated wrong.) Anyhow, that looks like essentially 100% conversion efficiency… *if* I am understanding this chart. No-sparge BIAB in case you didn't remember.

you're reading it right. There are some assumptions Kai's made to average things out for a theoretical average grist. All base malt grists might read a little high for example. The spreadsheet allows for more easily adjustable calculations, but might not make exactly the same assumptions, unadjusted. You can go through and get a true number with your analysis sheets, but it is close enough for brewing, in my opinion. 3% error is probably less than all the errors of our scales, vessels and hydrometer measurements, once combined.

[Brauer]

Yes 70% into the kettle. The odd thing is it is the same for batch with a braid, manifold or BIAB.

What's your dead volume?

Perhaps you should try monitoring your gravity over time, like JKor did, to try to diagnose where your system is stalling.

[HVB]

What's your dead volume?

Perhaps you should try monitoring your gravity over time, like JKor did, to try to diagnose where your system is stalling.

If I batch sparge the dead volume is 1.5cups or 0.09375g.  When I do BIAB like this last time it is 0.

[Brauer]

If I batch sparge the dead volume is 1.5cups or 0.09375g. When I do BIAB like this last time it is 0.

Yeah, that seems impossible.

At 90+ conversion, you should be getting close to 70% without even sparging, I think.

[HVB]

Yeah, that seems impossible.

At 90+ conversion, you should be getting close to 70% without even sparging, I think.

And that is what I got for the BIAB that Morty asked about.  I would have to go home and look at numbers for my last sparged beer but I want to say it was around 85% conversion.  Grain crush does not seem to change the number either. 

[neddles]

Drez, I am a bit ignorant of how a RIMS functions in practice so consider my question with that in mind. Is it possible the RIMS element is denaturing the enzymes prematurely? I wondered about that with Matt too (though I am not sure if his electric system is a RIMS or not) I wondered if Matt might be denaturing the more heat sensitive beta amylase resulting in his low attenuation numbers. Though it doesn't sound like attenuation has been an issue for you. This has likely been worked through by you or others but just kinda thinking out loud here.

[HVB]

Drez, I am a bit ignorant of how a RIMS functions in practice so consider my question with that in mind. Is it possible the RIMS element is denaturing the enzymes prematurely? I wondered about that with Matt too (though I am not sure if his electric system is a RIMS or not) I wondered if Matt might be denaturing the more heat sensitive beta amylase resulting in his low attenuation numbers. Though it doesn't sound like attenuation has been an issue for you. This has likely been worked through by you or others but just kinda thinking out loud here.

I feel bad derailing your thread!  Morty has brought that same issue up to me before and I have done batches where I did not use it.  My first batch of Holiday Hug was one, the thermocouple broke and I just went "old school" for that batch and still got 70%.  Same with my brewing before I went to the RIMS or HERMS system.  Back when i was just using a ice cube cooler to mash ala Denny I was only getting 70%.  I know I should just live with it but it really irritates me not being able to get it higher.

 

Attenuation has never been and issue for me, yet!

[neddles]

I feel bad derailing your thread!  Morty has brought that same issue up to me before and I have done batches where I did not use it.  My first batch of Holiday Hug was one, the thermocouple broke and I just went "old school" for that batch and still got 70%.  Same with my brewing before I went to the RIMS or HERMS system.  Back when i was just using a ice cube cooler to mash ala Denny I was only getting 70%.  I know I should just live with it but it really irritates me not being able to get it higher.

 

Attenuation has never been and issue for me, yet!

No derail, no worries. Just so odd how you always get 70%. Consistency is to be lauded though.

 

Still 70% at higher OGs or lower OGs than normal?

[HVB]

No derail, no worries. Just so odd how you always get 70%. Consistency is to be lauded though.

 

Still 70% at higher OGs or lower OGs than normal?

70% up to whatever BVIP is.  I think that may be the biggest beer I have made.

 

The BIAB IPA I did Friday night was 14#'s so it will be interesting to see if the red-x beer I do this week at 10#'s is still at 70% or higher.