20 replies to this topic

[TAPPER]

I had an infection spring up in my brewery that I think I finally tracked down.  I use sankey kegs to ferment in and I'm having a problem where beer 1 on a fresh pitch of yeast was turning out great, but beer 2 on the slurry was getting infected.  I would taste the the slurry before using it and everything seemed fine, but 7 - 10 days later...vinegar.  I was being extra cautious about everything touching that yeast slurry, but still...infection!

 

I push beer out of my sankey kegs into corney kegs using CO2.  This way I have a closed system transfer - no oxygen touches my beer post ferment.

 

In my quest to get rid of this bug I decided to take a look at the CO2 line I was using to push the beer (it is a dedicated line I never use for anything else).  I figured it was a long shot but what the heck, it will take me 2 minutes to look.

 

What I found was very disturbing!

 

Turns out that CO2 line was just full of crud.  The snot that came out when I flushed it with warm water almost made me puke.

 

I decided to look online and see if anyone else had this issue.  Not exactly my issue, but I found this discussion - https://forum.northe...php?f=3&t=57823  Take a look at the photo in the link.  Yeah.....ewwwww.  And that isn't coming from his lines, it is coming from THE TANKS.

 

I believe I will be filtering my CO2 from now on, and paying very close attention to the lines.

 

Hope I saved someone from an infected beer.

 

Oh.... so why did my slurries taste fine?  I believe I have an aceto bacteria infection.  Aceto requires oxygen to grow and warmer temps.  Remember, I was transferring my beers under CO2 and obviously keeping cold, so the beer in the kegs tasted just fine because the aceto content was very low and couldn't grow in those conditions.  My yeast slurries however were exposed to oxygen when I would dump the yeast from keg to jars.  BUT... I was keeping those slurries cold and using them within a couple weeks.  The aceto had little chance to multiply.  Now, throw it in a rich oxygenated wort at 60+ degrees and.........

[neddles]

This is good information. Appreciated.

[Big Nake]

Yeah, I would call this interesting if for no other reason than I generally accept CO2 to be pure or at least assume it will not impact the flavor of my beer.  Since I started kegging back in the mid 50s (okay, I made that up), I have not run into this issue nor would I envision having that issue.  I have heard of people connecting CO2 lines to charged kegs and having beer go up into the gas line.  All that said, I still do open transfers from primary to secondary and secondary to kegs although I have been purging my kegs before transferring to them.  It's always something in this hobby, you know? 

[DieselGopher]

Make sure you are getting beverage grade CO2, it's basically the second cleanest stuff out there (laser grade is foolishly expensive). Industrial grade and medical grade are dirtier than beverage grade.

[BlKtRe]

Daym. I've been doing the same thing using the same setup forever. As in around 10 years. I haven't had a issue like this. Kinda scary isn't it. My transfer tank is a 50# tank that I swap every 1.5 years or so. More money to spend. Thanks!

[djinkc]

I'm going to throw in backflow from kegs that festers for a while.  Those little backflow valves don't prevent contamination if they're 4' from the QD.

[3rd party JKor]

Yup, i just noticed one of my CO2 lines was all gunked up moldiness from backflow.

[Big Nake]

Make sure you are getting beverage grade CO2, it's basically the second cleanest stuff out there (laser grade is foolishly expensive). Industrial grade and medical grade are dirtier than beverage grade.

This is interesting too. I get my tanks filled at a fire-extinguisher place. They know I use it for beer. The lady at the front desk always says, "Oh, time to refill your beer tapper" and the guy tanks my tank, fills it up, brings it back and says, "Enjoy your beer!". I sure hope they wouldn't sell me industrial or medical grade stuff for that. Do you think they would mention that to me?

[TAPPER]

Make sure you are getting beverage grade CO2, it's basically the second cleanest stuff out there (laser grade is foolishly expensive). Industrial grade and medical grade are dirtier than beverage grade.

All my tanks say "Food grade".  In my case the tank in general isn't the problem, it is the line that I neglected.  But after reading that Northern Brewer forum I figure for $5 why not be extra careful?  There must be around $5000 worth of brew equipment in my garage.  I can't drop another $5 on a filter?  Maybe would have saved me from blowing 20 gallons of beer.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I've never had crud come out of a CO2 tank. I've had moldy lines before, but that's easy to spot and change out.

[3rd party JKor]

I've never had crud come out of a CO2 tank. I've had moldy lines before, but that's easy to spot and change out.

 

 

A lot of people use opaque gas lines.  This is one very good reason not to.

[Stout_fan]

When purging  tanks, I've noticed tiny balls ( 1/16" dia.) of solid CO2 form in the gas line, then they disappear.  At least I THINK they are dry ice.  No gas sourced infections yet, but you do give me pause to think and spend some $$ at NB.

[MyaCullen]

A lot of people use opaque gas lines.  This is one very good reason not to.

amen, I use clear gas lines for this reason.

[positiveContact]

amen, I use clear gas lines for this reason.

 

clear here as well.  a couple of times I've manage to get beer in the line.  I just toss it and get a new one.  not worth the risk.

[DieselGopher]

This is interesting too. I get my tanks filled at a fire-extinguisher place. They know I use it for beer. The lady at the front desk always says, "Oh, time to refill your beer tapper" and the guy tanks my tank, fills it up, brings it back and says, "Enjoy your beer!". I sure hope they wouldn't sell me industrial or medical grade stuff for that. Do you think they would mention that to me?

Not sure, but it's probably worth asking.

All my tanks say "Food grade". In my case the tank in general isn't the problem, it is the line that I neglected. But after reading that Northern Brewer forum I figure for $5 why not be extra careful? There must be around $5000 worth of brew equipment in my garage. I can't drop another $5 on a filter? Maybe would have saved me from blowing 20 gallons of beer.

Food grade should be the same as beverage grade.

[gnef]

When purging  tanks, I've noticed tiny balls ( 1/16" dia.) of solid CO2 form in the gas line, then they disappear.  At least I THINK they are dry ice.  No gas sourced infections yet, but you do give me pause to think and spend some $$ at NB.

Same here when I am blowing through a LOT of CO2 all at once - when I have a lot of cleaned and dried empty kegs that I pressurize for storage all at once.

 

I also have seen moldy lines from backflow. I replace or don't use those particular lines if they are on a larger manifold.

 

I also plan on getting some of the relatively expensive check valves (I think around $8 a piece) that go directly on the quick disconnect. I really only need two for the walk-in (one for ball lock, and one for pin lock), and then another two outside of the walk-in for carbing. In the past I have used the plastic inline check valves from usplastics. I still have some spares, but I don't want to use them because they require clamps, and I am moving to John Guest push to connect fittings for everything.

[MyaCullen]

clear here as well.  a couple of times I've manage to get beer in the line.  I just toss it and get a new one.  not worth the risk.

all my gas lines run through one way check valves as well, sometimes I'm not that cheap

[SchwanzBrewer]

Do you all think that an air compressor filter might be OK to use with CO2?

[gnef]

I would first check the rating of the filter element to see if it would even catch the small stuff.

 

Second, I've never trusted air compressor attachments to seal well, especially over time.

 

My best value recommendation would be for one of those small HEPA filters that they sell for O2 pump setups, they look like the pictures in the northernbrewer link above.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I guess I missed the filter at the top.