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Couple pet peeves...


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#1 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:37 AM

Got to the East coast of Florida this past weekend and I got to try a few beers from breweries around there. One of them served an Oktoberfest and something wasn't right.

 

It was an ale. It was clearly an ale. I don't like to speak up or call another brewery out especially in front of other customers.

 

Was the beer good? It was good, just not what I was expecting. Also they had some quality issues. We drank enough of it to change kegs and one of them either had contamination or it was the bottom of the bright tank fill because it went from clear and bright and malty to fruity opaque yeasty mess. The bartenders didn't even notice. On top of that one of the bartenders mentioned that they didn't brew a lager because they didn't have time to do it. That sends a red flag up. I just brewed a perfectly good, flawless, oktoberfest that was tapped in 19 days. There's no excuse not to do it right.

 

Second pet peeve... growlers. We stopped in at a brewery that we'd been to the previous night to grab a couple growlers and a pizza so we could watch the gator game at the house. They were having an Oktoberfest "party" and wouldn't fill growlers of the O'fest. That would be fine if the "party" was really busy and they were sure to sell out the beer with pints. There were 5 people in the whole place and one of them was the bartender from the previous night. How about you use a little common sense and sell the damn beer rather than turn away customers. We couldn't buy the growlers so we said fuck that and didn't buy their pizza as well. Would have been $100 in revenue and they just pissed it away. I'm going to write to the manager and let them know how their employees aren't using their brains. If it's a top down problem then maybe there's nothing that can be done. You can only lead a horse to water...

 

Am I wrong to expect more out of the places I go to in the business I'm trying to break into?

 

OK a third pet peeve...

 

Many of the breweries I've been to and talked to the owners have mentioned that they want nothing to do with food. They talk about serving food like they'd need plan a mission to Mars. Only two others have had the foresight to have some sort of food program where they are serving simple foods that help increase revenue substantially (sandwiches and pretzels - easy simple bar food that doesn't require a full kitchen or substantial infrastructure investment). One of the breweries is $1.2M into their build out and a month from opening, but they were scared to serve any sort of food. They are already in the food service industry business, the jump isn't that hard and your revenue will increase, especially when you're gonna need it to pay for that build out!

 

Sorry for the long post. I'm frustrated because I see people with less business sense and less ability for quality being successful despite themselves when I'm having trouble getting it started.



#2 denny

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:43 AM

How do you know it was an ale?  How do you distinguish and ale from a poorly made lager?



#3 matt6150

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:46 AM

I just don't visit breweries much and I don't get let down. I let myself down enough at home. :P



#4 positiveContact

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:02 AM

 On top of that one of the bartenders mentioned that they didn't brew a lager because they didn't have time to do it. That sends a red flag up. I just brewed a perfectly good, flawless, oktoberfest that was tapped in 19 days. There's no excuse not to do it right.

 

That's about a week longer than you could crank an ale out.  if they have limited brewing resources/storage I could see this being a problem.  This doesn't mean the bartender wasn't talking out his ass though.



#5 denny

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:53 AM

How do you know it was an ale?  How do you distinguish and ale from a poorly made lager?

 

DOH!  I see the answer now!



#6 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:09 AM

How do you know it was an ale?  How do you distinguish and ale from a poorly made lager?

 

The bartender said it was an ale. It was very ale like. It had no lager yeast character that I pick up in other lagers. I can only conclude that it was an ale.



#7 3rd party JKor

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:10 AM

Sounds like you're being a little too critical for the limited amount of information you have.

 

Peeve #1...Unless they said it was a lager, I don't see the problem.  It's pretty common for small breweries not to be able to handle lagers.  I wouldn't put much stock in something the bartender said, either.

 

Peeve #2...I doubt the guys filling the growlers made the decision not to fill.  Who knows, maybe they have a limited quantity and want to extend it over several events.  I'm sure that's a management decision.

 

Peeve #3...It sounds like you're underestimating the difficulty involved with serving food.  When someone already in the foodservice industry is telling you they want no part of serving food, even though they know it's a huge benefit, you might want to take a step back and evaluate if you really have your arms around that part of your plan.


Edited by JKor, 21 September 2015 - 11:13 AM.


#8 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:12 AM

That's about a week longer than you could crank an ale out.  if they have limited brewing resources/storage I could see this being a problem.  This doesn't mean the bartender wasn't talking out his ass though.

 

Even SNBC takes 17 days usually at a minimum to crank out an ale and they use tasters to determine the ship date.

 

I may be talking out of my ass, but I suspect that they are using a 21-28 day schedule, plus they have a brite tank.

 

Denny- sorry I just saw your other post.



#9 3rd party JKor

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:22 AM

SNBC is brewing like 100BBL batches and they have much better quality procedures than your typical brewpub.  Most brewpubs just brew it and tap it after a few days, I'd assume.  My experience is a lot of brewpubs move product whether it's ready or not.



#10 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:26 AM

Sounds like you're being a little too critical for the limited amount of information you have.

 

Peeve #1...Unless they said it was a lager, I don't see the problem.  It's pretty common for small breweries not to be able to handle lagers.  I wouldn't put much stock in something the bartender said, either.

 

Peeve #2...I doubt the guys filling the growlers made the decision not to fill.  Who knows, maybe they have a limited quantity and want to extend it over several events.  I'm sure that's a management decision.

 

Peeve #3...It sounds like you're underestimating the difficulty required to serve food.  When someone already in the foodservice industry is telling you they want no part of serving food, even though they know it's a huge benefit, you might want to take a step back and evaluate if you really have your arms around that part of your plan.

 

#1 - It was being represented as an Oktoberfest bier. That means lager.

 

#2 - The event was over 2 days of which we were present for both. At 8pm on both days they had less than 10 people in the place including us. It is possible that the owners told them not to sell growlers, but at some point you have to either let the employees know that they should make the company money if an event isn't working out, or the employee needs to be smart enough to realize that they aren't making any money and they need to sell some gat damn beer so they can make a living. Both are equal failures that need to be addressed.

 

#3 - We have our arms around it. K.I.S.S. I've seen other breweries pull it off just fine. It's not rocket surgery. There's an entire book (that anyone starting a brewery should read) that teaches you exactly how to do it if you don't have experience. The same principals on maintaining a beer supply, training/maintaining employees for, and serving beer apply to serving foods. It's the same industry - different product. You already have most of the requisite equipment. The up side is so dramatic over the first few years that it's crazy not to have a food offering.


SNBC is brewing like 100BBL batches and they have much better quality procedures than your typical brewpub.  Most brewpubs just brew it and tap it after a few days, I'd assume.  My experience is a lot of brewpubs move product whether it's ready or not.

 

That's one of the keys to my frustrations. There's ways to do it properly that have better outcomes for quality that don't hurt your bottom line or your reputation.



#11 3rd party JKor

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:33 AM

#1 - It was being represented as an Oktoberfest bier. That means lager.

 

#2 - The event was over 2 days of which we were present for both. At 8pm on both days they had less than 10 people in the place including us. It is possible that the owners told them not to sell growlers, but at some point you have to either let the employees know that they should make the company money if an event isn't working out, or the employee needs to be smart enough to realize that they aren't making any money and they need to sell some gat damn beer so they can make a living. Both are equal failures that need to be addressed.

 

#3 - We have our arms around it. K.I.S.S. I've seen other breweries pull it off just fine. It's not rocket surgery. There's an entire book (that anyone starting a brewery should read) that teaches you exactly how to do it if you don't have experience. The same principals on maintaining a beer supply, training/maintaining employees for, and serving beer apply to serving foods. It's the same industry - different product. You already have most of the requisite equipment. The up side is so dramatic over the first few years that it's crazy not to have a food offering.


 

That's one of the keys to my frustrations. There's ways to do it properly that have better outcomes for quality that don't hurt your bottom line or your reputation.

 

 

You're making a lot of assumptions, Rich.  

 

I don't assume an Oktoberfest is a lager.  I've made Oktoberfests with ale yeast, plenty have.  Homebrewer and pro alike.  What do you do if you don't have time in your brew schedule to brew a lager properly or don't have sufficient cooling?  Just skip brewing the Oktoberfest when you know that's what people will want this time of year?  Don't be a slave to the style guidelines, bro.   :P

 

They might've been almost out of the Oktoberfest.  How could you know what is going on behind the scenes?

 

Sure, i think it makes sense to try to have at least some food, even if it's just prepackaged stuff.  I hate going to a bar that doesn't have food.  Although, I can see the value in being totally focused on the brewing and then starting to look at food later after the brewing is running smoothly.  No matter how basic your menu is, that stuff doesn't handle itself.  It will take time away from the brewing.


Edited by JKor, 21 September 2015 - 11:34 AM.


#12 Poptop

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:53 AM

I'm curious to know which breweries you are talking about. I've been to most of my local's within 25 miles. Out of all I like one. You probably don't want to call any one out but maybe send me a PM. Or call em out, IDK. I'm finding that the majority on my coast are just trying to push out product and not focusing on quality. Which in the end; quality trumps volume and greatly assists to longevity and lore.

#13 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:56 AM

You're making a lot of assumptions, Rich.  

 

I don't assume an Oktoberfest is a lager.  I've made Oktoberfests with ale yeast, plenty have.  Homebrewer and pro alike.  What do you do if you don't have time in your brew schedule to brew a lager properly or don't have sufficient cooling?  Just skip brewing the Oktoberfest when you know that's what people will want this time of year?  Don't be a slave to the style guidelines, bro.   :P

 

They might've been almost out of the Oktoberfest.  How could you know what is going on behind the scenes?

 

Sure, i think it makes sense to try to have at least some food, even if it's just prepackaged stuff.  I hate going to a bar that doesn't have food.  Although, I can see the value in being totally focused on the brewing and then starting to look at food later after the brewing is running smoothly.  No matter how basic your menu is, that stuff doesn't handle itself.  It will take time away from the brewing.

 

It doesn't take any longer to properly make a lager than an ale.

 

They weren't out of oktoberfest. They had plenty of it and they only had 4 other people in the place. They turned down revenue when they obviously weren't making much. That's stupid, you'll have to take my word for it that their event was a bust and they should've sold the fucking growlers.

 

Food - for some I could see that route. The last ones I were referring to were going balls to the wall on all other aspects of the business. Seems like an oversight. There's a reason that Stone and SNBC have awesome beer gardens with food on site at the brewery. It's not because they want to be in the food business, it's because they want to be in the money making business and pairing awesome beer with food is really a no brainer. 

 

My friends just opened their brewery last weekend. I'm trying to convince them to figure out a way to do food so they can improve their revenue. The one partner is a foodie and has plenty of experience in the food industry, I've had food he's cooked, he's got the knack. I think they are possibly wasting a talent that just out of fear - which is irrational - you just opened a fucking brewery.



#14 BlKtRe

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 01:45 PM

Just take a Altbier recipe add more Munich ferment 1056 cold and call it a Octoberfest. Plenty of pros do this month's or less before October, September now days.

Fwiw, work with the food truck industry and stay out of the food business. Both are winners.

Edited by BlKtRe, 21 September 2015 - 01:46 PM.



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