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ars technica picobrew review


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#1 positiveContact

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:46 AM

https://arstechnica....d-as-it-sounds/

 

I know Denny has already reviewed this pretty extensively but this is kind of an interesting review since it's from a homebrew "outsider".

 

But before we dive into the details of the Zymatic, let’s establish why you’d want to brew your own beer. Brewing beer is pointless and time-consuming to some, so spending money on a rig like the PicoBrew Zymatic would be equally (or more) pointless and dumb to those people. My colleagues and I agree that in general, it’s better to just buy a beer that someone else made than to waste your time trying to brew your own beer if your number one goal is efficiency. Even if the grain and hops are relatively cheap, it’s a time-consuming exercise with a big opportunity cost.

 

But brewing beer is a fun, crafty thing to do. It’s like knitting. Lots of people knit scarfs and sweaters even though they could probably go out and buy a cheaper/less-time-consuming knit scarf or sweater at Kohl's or something. They do it because it gives them pride to make something and they enjoy the repetitive and detail-oriented nature of the craft. Personally, I hate knitting, but I like brewing beer and writing and cooking and sewing and other little hobby-like things for the same reason people like knitting. Doing these things doesn't always save me money (although sometimes it does) and it certainly never saves me time. I like to do them anyway.

 

At an MSRP of $2,000, the PicoBrew Zymatic is definitely for the kind of hobbyist brewers who have honed their craft to the point where they're really, really good at it. Maybe those brewers want to take things to the next level and do some rapid recipe prototyping before they rent access to big-time brewery equipment. Of course, if could also work for the casual hobbyist who has a ton of disposable income since it’s not a complicated machine to operate. In fact, for all the boxes and components, setup was surprisingly easy and quick (as long as you read the instructions).

 

 

I could see my brother buying something like this in that he likes beer a lot and has disposable income.  He also knows he could ask me questions.



#2 3rd party JKor

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:36 AM

My problem with this thing continues to be that, despite the fact that it works well at creating wort, making beer is more than making wort.  It doesn't really make beer for you.  It does part of the process, which can be achieved in a much, much, much cheaper fashion with equal results.  I don't want to say it's a gimmick because it actually works well, by all accounts, I simply think it misses the mark on value.  The main problem being that the people who are it's target audience probably don't really understand all the other work that needs to go into the process beyond what their shiny $2,000 appliance does, because it's not just a little bit of extra work, it's quite significant.  Not to mention knowledge of the craft. 

 

If you look at the entire brewing process as a whole.  Every bit of effort expended from figuring out the recipe you want to brew, going to the homebrew shop for ingredients, buying/acquiring/cleaning bottles, making the wort, fermentation and all associated activities, bottling, cleaning (x10).  This machine really takes out a very small portion of the entire quantity of time and effort to brew a batch of beer for a very high cost compared to the alternatives. 

 

I expect a huge quantity of these machines to be available second hand in the next few years.



#3 positiveContact

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:48 AM

My problem with this thing continues to be that, despite the fact that it works well at creating wort, making beer is more than making wort.  It doesn't really make beer for you.  It does part of the process, which can be achieved in a much, much, much cheaper fashion with equal results.  I don't want to say it's a gimmick because it actually works well, by all accounts, I simply think it misses the mark on value.  The main problem being that the people who are it's target audience probably don't really understand all the other work that needs to go into the process beyond what their shiny $2,000 appliance does, because it's not just a little bit of extra work, it's quite significant.  Not to mention knowledge of the craft. 

 

If you look at the entire brewing process as a whole.  Every bit of effort expended from figuring out the recipe you want to brew, going to the homebrew shop for ingredients, buying/acquiring/cleaning bottles, making the wort, fermentation and all associated activities, bottling, cleaning (x10).  This machine really takes out a very small portion of the entire quantity of time and effort to brew a batch of beer for a very high cost compared to the alternatives. 

 

I expect a huge quantity of these machines to be available second hand in the next few years.

 

what happens when the pico brew servers go down?  I can't remember - does it operate in an offline mode?  can one manually program it?

 

I think the idea here is that a lot of people would just buy the pico brew kits so they wouldn't have to formulate anything.  a lot of regular brewers do that now.

 

certainly controlling fermentation is a fairly big deal.  this article even points that out since it got hot in her apt at some point.

 

another aspect is treating the water - that seems like possibly a major pitfall.  maybe they just suggest using RO and tell you what minerals to add?



#4 HVB

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:53 AM

There is a new one on Kickstarter too.  Same company just smaller, guy I work with went with it for $500.



#5 positiveContact

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:05 AM

There is a new one on Kickstarter too.  Same company just smaller, guy I work with went with it for $500.

 

10.5 pints?  :lol:



#6 HVB

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:10 AM

10.5 pints?  :lol:

I know, a lot of work for a little beer.



#7 porter

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:21 AM

I know, a lot of work for a little beer.

 

 

That's not even enough to really enjoy and share a bit if you've hit one out of the park. I think 2.5 gallons or so is the smallest to be pointful, but that's just me.

 

If only people had local stores in their communities that would teach about the best and most reasonably economical methods to make your own beer at home. Should totally kickstarter that, man!



#8 HVB

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:27 AM

That's not even enough to really enjoy and share a bit if you've hit one out of the park. I think 2.5 gallons or so is the smallest to be pointful, but that's just me.

 

If only people had local stores in their communities that would teach about the best and most reasonably economical methods to make your own beer at home. Should totally kickstarter that, man!

I agree on the 2.5g mark and I am currently working on a 2.5g BIAB for some high ABV beers that I do not want 5g of.  I offered to show him the ways but he wanted to just buy something to turn out award winning beer, at least he is brewing!



#9 positiveContact

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 10:42 AM

so how soon until we have a system that cleans itself and handles the fermentation?  maybe a built RO and mineral/acid addition?



#10 denny

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 11:41 AM

My problem with this thing continues to be that, despite the fact that it works well at creating wort, making beer is more than making wort.  It doesn't really make beer for you.  It does part of the process, which can be achieved in a much, much, much cheaper fashion with equal results.  I don't want to say it's a gimmick because it actually works well, by all accounts, I simply think it misses the mark on value.  The main problem being that the people who are it's target audience probably don't really understand all the other work that needs to go into the process beyond what their shiny $2,000 appliance does, because it's not just a little bit of extra work, it's quite significant.  Not to mention knowledge of the craft. 

 

If you look at the entire brewing process as a whole.  Every bit of effort expended from figuring out the recipe you want to brew, going to the homebrew shop for ingredients, buying/acquiring/cleaning bottles, making the wort, fermentation and all associated activities, bottling, cleaning (x10).  This machine really takes out a very small portion of the entire quantity of time and effort to brew a batch of beer for a very high cost compared to the alternatives. 

 

I expect a huge quantity of these machines to be available second hand in the next few years.

 

The company explains all that thoroughly in their lit.  You can't really blame them if people don't do the research.



#11 denny

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 11:44 AM

what happens when the pico brew servers go down?  I can't remember - does it operate in an offline mode?  can one manually program it?

 

I think the idea here is that a lot of people would just buy the pico brew kits so they wouldn't have to formulate anything.  a lot of regular brewers do that now.

 

certainly controlling fermentation is a fairly big deal.  this article even points that out since it got hot in her apt at some point.

 

another aspect is treating the water - that seems like possibly a major pitfall.  maybe they just suggest using RO and tell you what minerals to add?

 

You need to connect to get a brew started but once it's going it keep going if you lose internet.  An offline mode is in the works.  Water treatment is no more difficult than it is for any other brewing system.


so how soon until we have a system that cleans itself and handles the fermentation?  maybe a built RO and mineral/acid addition?

 

There's a dutch co. called MiniBrew working on something like that.  A 1 gal. system.  Drew and I discuss all of these systems on the 2nd podcast episode.  Hopefully that will be available in about 2 weeks.



#12 denny

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 11:48 AM

I know, a lot of work for a little beer.

 

OK, first you have to stop thinking like a homebrewer...that machine is not aimed at the homebrewer market.  It's aimed at the beer aficionado market.  They have a huge market in SE Asia and Europe.  Those are the people this machine is marketed to.  Craft beer lovers without time, access to craft beer or space to really brew their own.  Second, it's hardly any work at all.  You put in a a recipe pack, hook up a keg of water and wait.



#13 HVB

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 11:51 AM

OK, first you have to stop thinking like a homebrewer...that machine is not aimed at the homebrewer market.  It's aimed at the beer aficionado market.  They have a huge market in SE Asia and Europe.  Those are the people this machine is marketed to.  Craft beer lovers without time, access to craft beer or space to really brew their own.  Second, it's hardly any work at all.  You put in a a recipe pack, hook up a keg of water and wait.

But I can't!  Just like I cannot stop thinking like and engineer.  Maybe it is a fault but it is how I am. :)   I can only speak for the person that I know buying it and he is one that wants to homebrew and become a homebrewer.  So not sure how that is not the homebrew market.  He just sees it as an easy way into the game.



#14 positiveContact

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:08 PM

You need to connect to get a brew started but once it's going it keep going if you lose internet.  An offline mode is in the works.  Water treatment is no more difficult than it is for any other brewing system.


 

There's a dutch co. called MiniBrew working on something like that.  A 1 gal. system.  Drew and I discuss all of these systems on the 2nd podcast episode.  Hopefully that will be available in about 2 weeks.

 

so I guess my question still stands - what happens if pico brew ceases to exist?

 

as for the water - what I was saying was that people need to be aware of how to treat their water.  this machine won't do it for them.  just sort of adding onto JKor's point that this is a wort machine, not a beer machine and even still there are a few things the brewer should consider.

 

OK, first you have to stop thinking like a homebrewer...that machine is not aimed at the homebrewer market.  It's aimed at the beer aficionado market.  They have a huge market in SE Asia and Europe.  Those are the people this machine is marketed to.  Craft beer lovers without time, access to craft beer or space to really brew their own.  Second, it's hardly any work at all.  You put in a a recipe pack, hook up a keg of water and wait.

 

at some point the amount you are making has to be too small to be worth it.  how much time are you willing to spend per pint?

 

you still have to clean and sanitize bottles or a keg, rack, clean other equipment etc.  the majority of my active brewing time is cleaning and sanitizing.  a lot of the other stuff is just waiting around.


Edited by Evil_Morty, 09 November 2015 - 12:09 PM.


#15 positiveContact

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:10 PM

this isn't all to say this isn't  a cool little machine.  if you want to make 2.5 gal batches (and a lot of people do) it certainly removes a good amount of hassle.



#16 denny

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:19 PM

so I guess my question still stands - what happens if pico brew ceases to exist?

 

as for the water - what I was saying was that people need to be aware of how to treat their water.  this machine won't do it for them.  just sort of adding onto JKor's point that this is a wort machine, not a beer machine and even still there are a few things the brewer should consider.

 

 

at some point the amount you are making has to be too small to be worth it.  how much time are you willing to spend per pint?

 

you still have to clean and sanitize bottles or a keg, rack, clean other equipment etc.  the majority of my active brewing time is cleaning and sanitizing.  a lot of the other stuff is just waiting around.

 

Yeah, your first question is one I hear often and don't really have an answer for...other than Drew has dissected what happens and assure me he could keep us brewing!

 

I made award winning beers for years before i ever did anything with water more than add some gypsum for hoppy beers.  Water treatment is the last 5% of things you should worry about   .in general.

 

The Pico takes so little work that the time/beer ratio is not an issue for many people.  After fermentation you rack the beer to a 5L minikeg, so no bottling.

 

And once again, you're thinking like a homebrew, not a beer lover in Indonesia with no access to craft beer or time or space to brew (example totally fabricated!).  Once I learned to adjust the way I thought about beer making, these products made much more sense to me.



#17 positiveContact

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:27 PM

I made award winning beers for years before i ever did anything with water more than add some gypsum for hoppy beers.  Water treatment is the last 5% of things you should worry about   .in general.

 

The Pico takes so little work that the time/beer ratio is not an issue for many people.  After fermentation you rack the beer to a 5L minikeg, so no bottling.

 

And once again, you're thinking like a homebrew, not a beer lover in Indonesia with no access to craft beer or time or space to brew (example totally fabricated!).  Once I learned to adjust the way I thought about beer making, these products made much more sense to me.

 

Water treatment has helped me out quite a bit.  I need to acidify the mash of almost everything I make to get the pH in the right spot.  This has helped with efficiency (nothing else has changed with how I mash/sparge) and flavor.  Lower pH can really make a beer pop.  Look at Ken and how much better his light colored beers were after he figured all his water stuff out.  If your water happens to be good for beers you typically make I'd say you got lucky.

 

It's true - I'm at the very least "US focused".  Most of the US has access to high quality products so that's not really a motivator I consider.




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