30 replies to this topic

[brewman]

So I decided to give fly sparging a try for not other reason then to just do it and see what happens.  I had most of the parts laying around so I built this.  Trial run has the mash tun draining at the same rate that its filling up.  Now this was done with no grain so it may be different when I use grain.  Ill let you know of any difference in efficiency when I'm done.

 

[Area Man]

Spiff! I'm not happy with the sparge setup that came built into my cooler. I may have enough on hand to do something like this. What size holes did you drill?

[brewman]

I did not look at what bit size I used but its no bigger then pencil lead.

[SchwanzBrewer]

It's more than just matching speeds.

 

• Make sure the water is actually filtering through the grain bed and not just running down the sides.
• You should have enough water on top of the grain bed to cover it at all times.
• Vorlauf Vorlauf Vorlauf! Go slow to set the bed. I use a stainless spaghetti strainer to redistribute the vorlauf wort.
• Keep an eye on things. If the water builds up you'll have too much hydraulic pressure on the bottom and you won't filter through the bed properly.
• Slower is better than faster
• Make sure you have enough sparge water. More is better.
• Don't forget to treat the sparge water for hardness and PH.
• Keep an eye out on the boil kettle. Don't let it over fill! (if you didn't pre measure your sparge water)

[Deerslyr]

What Schwanz says.  

 

If you have been batch sparging, you should also expect to lower your mash-tun efficiency.  It can be part of the trade off with fly sparging.  If your batch sparge efficiency is 75%, then lower it 10% (i.e., use more grain) until you get it dialed in.  But IIRC, I got about 8% more efficiency from batch sparging.

 

I wonder if Denny will have anything to say about this.  

[3rd party JKor]

Mine went the other way.  My efficiency was 85%+/-5% when fly sparging, but has dropped to more like 70-75% with batch sparging.

[matt6150]

Yeah I get much better efficiency fly-sparging.

[positiveContact]

theoretically fly sparging should yield higher efficiency.  if it doesn't I'd wonder if the fly sparging system is set up properly or if there is a conversion issue.

[Deerslyr]

Maybe I've got Oldheimers and got it backwards.  Unfortunately, a lot of my "notes" have gotten lost through several moves.  I can only go on a faulty memory.  But... that may account for an issue I had recently.

 

I'll retract my comment based on populous experience.

[3rd party JKor]

Fly sparging efficiency does seem to be more all-over-the-map due to many people having issues with their MLT design.  It seems a lot fo the early converts to fly sparging did so because they couldn't get their fly sparging technique down.  I think a lot of people do get better efficiency with batch sparging, mainly due to having poorly designed or operated fly sparging systems.

[positiveContact]

Fly sparging efficiency does seem to be more all-over-the-map due to many people having issues with their MLT design.  It seems a lot fo the early converts to fly sparging did so because they couldn't get their fly sparging technique down.  I think a lot of people do get better efficiency with batch sparging, mainly due to having poorly designed or operated fly sparging systems.

 

that's what I would guess as well.  that being said I don't care about achieving really high efficiency.  My ~80% seems good enough and it works well with my setup.

[brewman]

I'm doing this to test what works best for me.  If I can Ill do two of the same brews one batch one fly to see what the difference is.

 

Dan

[positiveContact]

I'm doing this to test what works best for me.  If I can Ill do two of the same brews one batch one fly to see what the difference is.

 

Dan

 

if the efficiency is similar I would guess the resulting beer would be the same.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Your efficiency will depend a lot on the lautering ability of your mash tun. The more uniform the filtering the more efficiency you'll get out of fly sparging. This is why most fly sparges are done with false bottoms or with manifolds that cover a good portion of the bottom of the tun. If you are just using a braid then you're not likely going to increase efficiency.

 

For homebrewing I'm solidly in Denny's batch sparging corner with one caveat... big beers. If you try to batch sparge a really big beer, your lautering efficiency drops like a rock (assuming the mash tun size remains the same). There isn't a lot of data out there on batch sparging big beers for lautering efficiency. There's plenty of conversion data, but we're assuming that you get the same conversion % with either method and any size batch. The reason that there isn't a lot of data is because everyone's equipment profile is different. Most of the equipment is a hodge podge of whatever fittings and crap you can piece together to make it work on the cheap (as it should be). So collecting data for yourself is paramount in being able to predict what your efficiency is going to be when you make a big beer.

 

With my homebrew set up if I went over 1.055 I was guessing what my OG was going to be. After a lot of batches I started to learn approximately what the OG would be, but it was still a crap shoot. DCRIPA at 1.075 was down in the low 60%'s. That's really friggin annoying when you can't predict your OG right and you miss your OG.

 

How do you fix this? Either sparge a time or two more (batch sparging), use a larger vessel to batch sparge in so your grist ratio remains the same (Theory of mine - I never tried it), OR fly sparge.

 

The nice thing about fly sparging is that your efficiency should be independent of your batch size. You can make a big beer with a lower grist ratio and you ought to be able to get the same lautering efficiency every time (again assuming your conversion efficiency is the same).

Edited by SchwanzBrewer, 02 February 2016 - 01:38 PM.

[brewman]

I have a large manifold that covers the entire bottom of the mash tun so it should work for me, time will tell.

 

Dan

[positiveContact]

I still get upper 70s for efficiency even for beers up to 1.070.  I don't typically make beers much bigger than this but if I did I'd probably just amend the gravity with sugar or DME.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I still get upper 70s for efficiency even for beers up to 1.070.  I don't typically make beers much bigger than this but if I did I'd probably just amend the gravity with sugar or DME.

 

This can be a misnomer. Which efficiency is in the 70's? Brew house? Lautering? Conversion? Post boil? Preboil?

[positiveContact]

This can be a misnomer. Which efficiency is in the 70's? Brew house? Lautering? Conversion? Post boil? Preboil?

 

I measure volume and gravity in the fermentor to calculate this.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I measure volume and gravity in the fermentor to calculate this.

 

Understood.

 

My main point was that the difference between batch and fly sparging is how you lauter, so all things being equal otherwise, your lautering efficiency is mainly what is affected and what I argue is hardest to predict in batch sparging.

 

So a good question would be, can you accurately predict your preboil OG when batch sparging no matter the post boil OG? I personally had a hard time with it and I believe I've asked a variation of that question before here. The resounding answer before was no, you just have to try it for yourself and adjust as needed.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Braukaiser does the best job explaining lautering efficiency, but he does not offer a way to predict lautering efficiency, which I contend is entirely based on experience with your own equipment. Using Kai's analysis you should be able to better predict your efficiency in the future though. You must be careful though since it's easy to throw off your numbers by measurement error.

 

https://www.braukais...sion_Efficiency

Edited by SchwanzBrewer, 02 February 2016 - 03:39 PM.