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INteresting article about New Enland IPA


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#21 denny

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:15 AM

the left coast seems to get upset when people like east coast beer.

 

If you think I'm upset, you're dead wrong.  I find it amusing that people want to defend beer that looks like some of those.  And I have yet to find a beer that I think is improved by looking like that.  Every one I've tried has had muted, muddled flavors due to the sludge.  I think Drew is having a bunch of them shipped to us so we can do a tasting during the podcast.  Persoanlly, I think it's a fad like black IPA.



#22 neddles

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:22 AM

If you think I'm upset, you're dead wrong.  I find it amusing that people want to defend beer that looks like some of those.  And I have yet to find a beer that I think is improved by looking like that.  Every one I've tried has had muted, muddled flavors due to the sludge.  I think Drew is having a bunch of them shipped to us so we can do a tasting during the podcast.  Persoanlly, I think it's a fad like black IPA.

 

Since you don't yet realize that good examples of the style don't have sludge or muted flavors I think you may be prejudging just a touch. Last time we talked about this you said you had tried one beer of this style (Heady Topper) and didn't even know how old it was. What other examples have you had since then?



#23 cavman

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:25 AM

If you think I'm upset, you're dead wrong.  I find it amusing that people want to defend beer that looks like some of those.  And I have yet to find a beer that I think is improved by looking like that.  Every one I've tried has had muted, muddled flavors due to the sludge.  I think Drew is having a bunch of them shipped to us so we can do a tasting during the podcast.  Persoanlly, I think it's a fad like black IPA.

Great Notion in Portland is mentioned in the article as doing the cloudy thing, not sure if they are any good though.

#24 HVB

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:30 AM

If you think I'm upset, you're dead wrong.  I find it amusing that people want to defend beer that looks like some of those.  And I have yet to find a beer that I think is improved by looking like that.  Every one I've tried has had muted, muddled flavors due to the sludge.  I think Drew is having a bunch of them shipped to us so we can do a tasting during the podcast.  Persoanlly, I think it's a fad like black IPA.

My package finally got shipped out.  So you will have about 8+ cans in there to try.  I do not see it being a fad but that is just my opinion.



#25 denny

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:03 PM

Since you don't yet realize that good examples of the style don't have sludge or muted flavors I think you may be prejudging just a touch. Last time we talked about this you said you had tried one beer of this style (Heady Topper) and didn't even know how old it was. What other examples have you had since then?

 

None that I can think of.  That's why I'm looking forward to doing the tasting with Drew.  And I have no doubt that there are good examples of the style...well, at least I hope there are.


My package finally got shipped out.  So you will have about 8+ cans in there to try.  I do not see it being a fad but that is just my opinion.

 

Thanks!  Nobody thought balck IPA was a fad either, but how many do you see compared to when it was a big deal?



#26 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:06 PM

I don't want to drink beer that is so yeasty/or hop muddy that it gives me the shits.



#27 HVB

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:09 PM

None that I can think of.  That's why I'm looking forward to doing the tasting with Drew.  And I have no doubt that there are good examples of the style...well, at least I hope there are.


 

Thanks!  Nobody thought balck IPA was a fad either, but how many do you see compared to when it was a big deal?

 

Just my opinion on the topic.

 

ETA - I never liked black IPAs anyway.

 

I don't want to drink beer that is so yeasty/or hop muddy that it gives me the shits.

 

Everyone is different but I have not had that reaction to any of these beers.  I also do not find the ones I am buying to be yeast derived.


Edited by drez77, 01 April 2016 - 12:10 PM.


#28 cavman

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:11 PM

Just my opinion on the topic.
 
 
Everyone is different but I have not had that reaction to any of these beers.  I also do not find the ones I am buying to be yeast derived.

I agree. However the more recent bottles of Trillium I have had all had a lot more yeast sediment in the bottle than usual. It may be a Canton thing, the 2 growlers I had were great.

#29 neddles

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:16 PM

Who cares if its a fad. I'm enjoying the beer in my glass.



#30 HVB

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:18 PM

I agree. However the more recent bottles of Trillium I have had all had a lot more yeast sediment in the bottle than usual. It may be a Canton thing, the 2 growlers I had were great.

Most of my hazy is from Tree House.  You are right about Trillium and yeast as I pointed out in my pictures.  I have had other bottles from them in the past, not from Canton, that were not like that.  I am guessing it is getting accustomed to the new brewery and maybe pushing them out too fast?


Who cares if its a fad. I'm enjoying the beer in my glass.

I wish I had a glass of beer here!



#31 neddles

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:18 PM

Everyone is different but I have not had that reaction to any of these beers.  I also do not find the ones I am buying to be yeast derived.

Agree, none of the ones I have had or made have been yeasty and none gave me the runs.



#32 neddles

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:21 PM

I wish I had a glass of beer here!

Here you go! I can smell it from here!

4dSr7wDl.jpg



#33 positiveContact

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:28 PM

If you think I'm upset, you're dead wrong.  I find it amusing that people want to defend beer that looks like some of those.  And I have yet to find a beer that I think is improved by looking like that.  Every one I've tried has had muted, muddled flavors due to the sludge.  I think Drew is having a bunch of them shipped to us so we can do a tasting during the podcast.  Persoanlly, I think it's a fad like black IPA.

 

the comment wasn't directed at you.  I was talking about the article posted in the OP b/c I think there is some elitism going on here.



#34 neddles

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:31 PM

the comment wasn't directed at you.  I was talking about the article posted in the OP b/c I think there is some elitism going on here.

Yes, yes, that is it, that's the stink I am getting.

 

There was a guy on AHA not long ago saying the NE IPA brewers need to "come clean" about their brewing practices. Guess how many examples of the style he had tried? Hint: fewer than Denny.


Edited by neddles, 01 April 2016 - 12:33 PM.


#35 positiveContact

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:37 PM

I can't speak about pros b/c I'm not one and I didn't stay at a holiday inn last night.  what I do know is that beer I have heavily dry hopped is cloudy/hazy for at least a few weeks if not more.  given that there is more and more desire for hop flavor/aroma at some point you are going to have cloudy beer due to dry hopping.  to me it's just a sign that I'm getting a freshly dry hopped product.



#36 denny

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:39 PM

What I wonder when I see those is "why does the beer have to look like that?"  Especially some of the ones that I hear are made sludgy on purpose.  I've had MANY beers with amazing mouthfeel and hop character that were clear, or near to it.  Why not the NE IPA?


I can't speak about pros b/c I'm not one and I didn't stay at a holiday inn last night.  what I do know is that beer I have heavily dry hopped is cloudy/hazy for at least a few weeks if not more.  given that there is more and more desire for hop flavor/aroma at some point you are going to have cloudy beer due to dry hopping.  to me it's just a sign that I'm getting a freshly dry hopped product.

 

Cloudy is one thing.  Sludgy is another. 



#37 cavman

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:42 PM

What I wonder when I see those is "why does the beer have to look like that?"  Especially some of the ones that I hear are made sludgy on purpose.  I've had MANY beers with amazing mouthfeel and hop character that were clear, or near to it.  Why not the NE IPA?

 
Cloudy is one thing.  Sludgy is another.

They shouldn't be sludgy at all, the ones adding flour and what not to the mash are worrying about the haze more than the taste.

the comment wasn't directed at you.  I was talking about the article posted in the OP b/c I think there is some elitism going on here.

The guy from Breakside sure seemed a little butt hurt.

#38 positiveContact

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:42 PM

just an FYI:  I can't see any of the pics in this thread right now so take that into consideration when I respond :)

 

around here there is what I would nearly call an obsession with getting super hoppy beers among the craft beer snobs.  these are the people who think if you don't drink a HT within a few days of it being canned that it's no longer any good (I have to disagree, I think it's good for quite some time!).  I suspect the idea that you want to get your heavily dry hopped beer out the door as fast as possible is combining with this obsession with drinking very young hoppy beers to create the perfect storm of dry hop haze.


Edited by Evil_Morty, 01 April 2016 - 12:42 PM.


#39 positiveContact

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:46 PM

They shouldn't be sludgy at all, the ones adding flour and what not to the mash are worrying about the haze more than the taste.

 

I'm not sure I've had any that were adding flour or anything.  my experiences with these beers are limited compared to you guys b/c I just don't drink a ton of commercial beer.  the examples I can think of off hand:

 

heady topper

tree house haze

foundation epiphany

sculpin (not even east coast!)

 

I wouldn't describe any of these beers as sludgy.  they are all definitely hazy or cloudy.  and they are all delicious.



#40 neddles

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:56 PM

What I wonder when I see those is "why does the beer have to look like that?"  Especially some of the ones that I hear are made sludgy on purpose.  I've had MANY beers with amazing mouthfeel and hop character that were clear, or near to it.  Why not the NE IPA?

 

I don't know the science Denny but my suspicion is that in these beers a permanent haze in being created with the combination of hop polyphenols (tannins) and protein from the malt. That is certainly going to give you a different mouthfeel than that of a high FG or a mouthfeel enhancing yeast like 1450 or 3711. It's not the same mouthfeel you are thinking. Why the hop character comes across so fresh and juicy in these beers is not entirely clear to me but I have no doubt it has something to do with the haze as well. Perhaps the hop oils are being trapped or incorporated chemically in the haze somehow. I cannot say for sure. How much the strain of yeast plays a role I don't know but I can say the haze is produced in my brewery post flocculation. The beer picture I posted above was made with 1318 and it had dropped clear before being dry hopped.

 

I am going go out on a limb to predict Denny won't like the beers he is being sent. For several reasons but a big one will be because of the fruity hop presentation (and he will be biased because already knows there's English yeast in there too!)




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