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Thoughts on future basement electric brewery?


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#1 gnef

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Posted 08 April 2016 - 10:22 PM

All,

 

I am still in the research phase of everything, and am on a limited budget to do all I want (about $1.5k). For all that I want to do, I want to build the stand, control panels (more on this below), sink, vent, and wiring.

 

Building the stand won't require much since I think I can repurpose my single tier stand that I use right now with propane, just a few adjustments, and then put plywood on top. Though, I notice many stands use multiple boards rather than plywood. Is there a reason for this?

 

I will be pulling about 70 ft of 6/3 wiring from the main panel with a 50amp GFCI breaker at the main panel. I plan on bringing it down into this sub panel: https://www.amazon.c...uct_top?ie=UTF8

 

The sub panel will have two 30 amp 240v breakers and two 20 amp 120v breakers to begin with, with plans to add another 30 amp 240v breaker later if needed(One 30a for the primary BK, one 30a for the HLT, and then the spare 30a for a possible secondary BK in the future so that I can run a dual boil once I’m done with the HLT, which could also just stand as a spare if an element burns out or the BK controller or SSR burns out). the 30a breakers will each be wired to a standard 240v wall switch rated for 30amps: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-3032-2-Toggle-Double-Pole-Grounding/dp/B00271GTQY?ie=UTF8&keywords=240v%20wall%20switch&qid=1459651825&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1 and from the switch to the mini control panel.

 

There will also be some 120v switches put in as well that will be used to switch outlets that control the vent fan, pumps, and grain mill (I plan on wall mounting the grain mill above the mash tun on a hinge). (I also plan on putting my coffee roaster in this area, so one 120v circuit will go to that as well most likely)

 

To cut down on costs and keep things simple, I was thinking about doing separate smaller control panels for the BK and HLT. I was planning on using the kit from stilldragon for the BK: https://stilldragon....roller-kit.html  (I’ve seen the nice big control panels that everyone else seems to use. I find it overly complicated and expensive for all those pieces, though they do look nice!)

 

For the HLT, I am still figuring things out, but was planning on going with a 12vdc temperature controller to control the SSR (most SSR’s I’m finding are switched with 3-32 vdc). I already have a 12vdc power supply that I could use too. I will most likely use a thermowell in the HLT for the temperature probe

 

I plan on hardwiring the mini control panels using these AC Whips from the sub panel: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Liquidtite-10-3-in-x-6-ft-AC-Whip/202286686 since I won’t need a neutral inside the control panels. I’ll adjust length so that the wires can reach inside the sub panel to the breakers

 

I know most do one big control panel, but I thought for myself that doing two smaller control panels would be easier and also cheaper. The wall is cinder block, and I was thinking about attaching a 2x8 to it which I would then attach a cheap monitor arm to for each control panel. I am essentially putting part of what most have inside their control panel on my wall. I hope that makes sense.

 

I was also planning on using this fan: https://www.amazon.c...=I1YQ1SNY080WXU

And then pipe it and build a cheap vent for the area. There is an FRP board vent hood build that looks like something I could adapt.

 

I also wanted a big sink: https://www.homedepo..._-203155730-_-N

 

Which will allow me to clean right there, which I also have a sump pump for the washing machine that is close by that I should be able to drain to.

 

For the cold water line, I was thinking I should go ahead and sweat some copper and Tee off one of the lines that is overhead. For the hot water though, since I am so close to the washing machine, I was thinking of just getting a washing machine hose long enough so that I can split off of that for the sink. The cold water line I would split a few times to feed the water filter, chiller, and the sink.

 

For chilling, I have a dual stage counterflow that I built. I was planning on just running an extra garden hose out of the garage from the first stage using groundwater (I don’t want to fill up the septic tank), and then the second stage is with a submersible pump and ice water. I also have an immersion chiller that I could use in the winter time, though I don’t know if I would want it resting on top of the electric element.

 

I also plan on building some cheap shelves on the side which will allow me to keep some things on hand, as well as store my coffee roasting equipment, beans, and scale.

 

For my kettles, I was planning on getting the weldless bulkhead from stilldragon: https://stilldragon....ad-fitting.html along with their element guard kit: https://stilldragon....-guard-kit.html

 

And then get 5500 watt stainless elements from one of the many vendors online (a lot of them seem to be out at the moment).

 

So how does this all sound? It is definitely still a work in progress, and I won’t be able to start on this for another month or so (other projects I need to finish first, and save up the money as well). I have changed the design in my head many times, but this is about where it stands at the moment. I am open to advice and constructive criticism. From my spreadsheet so far, it looks like I should be able to do all this within my budget, though it will be close after taxes and shipping costs!

 


#2 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 06:25 AM

PM George. He's done this.



#3 realbeerguy

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 09:47 AM

Check with Matt6150 too



#4 HVB

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 09:50 AM

Check with Matt6150 too

And BlKtRe

Edited by drez77, 09 April 2016 - 09:51 AM.


#5 djinkc

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 10:56 AM

FWIW, I use a Ranco to fire the SSR that runs the EHLT.    The Al kettle boils fine with no regulation except an off/on switch.  4500 Watts.

 

Not as elegant as the boxes people are making/buying but it's functional.



#6 HVB

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 11:15 AM

I have read about issues with the still dragon weldless triclamp. People mention issues with elements fitting correct. Brew hardware has a weldless 1.5 that works from what I read. Soldering the triclamp on is pretty easy too.

#7 gnef

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 02:07 PM

FWIW, I use a Ranco to fire the SSR that runs the EHLT.    The Al kettle boils fine with no regulation except an off/on switch.  4500 Watts.

 

Not as elegant as the boxes people are making/buying but it's functional.

Interesting. I am still thinking I'll stick with my simplified control panels, but it is good to know that the simpler setups work just as well. I also plan on using 5500 watt elements, so I want to be able to throttle the boil when needed.

 

I have read about issues with the still dragon weldless triclamp. People mention issues with elements fitting correct. Brew hardware has a weldless 1.5 that works from what I read. Soldering the triclamp on is pretty easy too.

Interesting, I'll need to do more research on them then. I have a couple brewers in the club that have used them and like them. I'll need to look more into what brewhardware offers, a lot of it is out of stock regularly. I'll also need to research the soldering of the triclamp fitting and how strong it is. I see he has an instructional video, and I'll take a look at that later to see how easy it is to do too.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I appreciate it! I won't be starting on this for quite a while, as I have other projects I need to finish first, but I want to have a solid plan by the time I am able to start purchasing items.



#8 djinkc

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 05:27 PM

I bought a PWM to run the SSR for 5500 Watts a few years ago.  Still haven't used it.  It would be nice to put more watts into the kettle to get the boil started if I ever start batch sparging again.

 

Maybe I should see if it will run a stir plate since it's DC in and out.



#9 HVB

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 05:29 PM

I use pwm to control my boil, and stir plate. Works very nice and easy to ramp up or down.

#10 gnef

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 04:30 PM

I've been reading up a bit on the still dragon controller, and it looks like I'll need to add a fan. How much heat do the ssr's produce, and what kind of flow should I plan for to keep those electronics in good health?

 

My other option would be to cut a rectangular hole so that I can keep the heatsink outside of the box, but I'm not sure how securely I would be able to affix the ssr like that. Thoughts?



#11 djinkc

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 04:49 PM

I've been reading up a bit on the still dragon controller, and it looks like I'll need to add a fan. How much heat do the ssr's produce, and what kind of flow should I plan for to keep those electronics in good health?

 

My other option would be to cut a rectangular hole so that I can keep the heatsink outside of the box, but I'm not sure how securely I would be able to affix the ssr like that. Thoughts?

 

Mine's outside the little pvc box.  I just redid it a couple months ago. JB Weld was involved. Did it on the fly and don't remember the specifics.  I can check if you want.  Mounted a little recycled PC fan on the heat sink that kicks on when the element is running.



#12 gnef

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 10:51 PM

Mine's outside the little pvc box.  I just redid it a couple months ago. JB Weld was involved. Did it on the fly and don't remember the specifics.  I can check if you want.  Mounted a little recycled PC fan on the heat sink that kicks on when the element is running.

Ah! For some reason I didn't even think about mounting the fan directly on the heatsink! Once I order everything in, I'll have to take a look at the SSR and heatsink assembly and see how easy it would be to mount it with the heatsink on the outside with a fan. 

 

I've found some 240vac to 12vdc transformers for pretty cheap on amazon, though it looks like I would need to wire in an outlet inside the box for it. I'll need to continue ruminating on this idea.



#13 HVB

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 09:33 AM

I have no fan in my control panel.  I have my SSRs all mounted to heatsinks but no external cooling and I have no had an issue.

 

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#14 gnef

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 01:51 PM

You've got a nice spacious control panel box!

 

Would you mind pointing out the different parts to me that are on the DIN rails? For some I see what look to be contactors and breakers, but others I really don't recognize!



#15 HVB

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 05:17 AM

You've got a nice spacious control panel box!

 

Would you mind pointing out the different parts to me that are on the DIN rails? For some I see what look to be contactors and breakers, but others I really don't recognize!

Hope this helps

 

13001060_10154942128109657_8128584486227



#16 positiveContact

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 06:25 AM

I wish I could help out here but I know nothing about this.  it all sounds pretty cool though!  :cheers:



#17 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 08:30 AM

I almost went the electric route for the basement brewery. I'm so happy I went with natural gas. I'd probably still be trying to put it together. I am jealous of those with the skills to make it work.



#18 HVB

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 08:32 AM

I almost went the electric route for the basement brewery. I'm so happy I went with natural gas. I'd probably still be trying to put it together. I am jealous of those with the skills to make it work.

Natural gas was not an option for me so I had to make it work.  My background does help though and I am actually planning out another control panel just for BIAB.



#19 BlKtRe

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 08:46 AM

Why don't you run a single 50 amp 6/4 circuit from your house main panel to the brewery and have a box with equipment built into it to run all your electrical brewing needs? Might as well run some 12/2 WG and have another dedicated 120v 20 amp circuit to run other things. Put the 50 amp GFCI breaker in the house panel. I think a sub panel is a useless cost unless you don't have enough room in your main house panel. Just my 2cents.



#20 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 09:03 AM

Natural gas was not an option for me so I had to make it work.  My background does help though and I am actually planning out another control panel just for BIAB.

That's awesome. I love brewing indoors and not in the kitchen. I don't think I could do BIAB, height constraints with exhaust hood. My current set up is no-sparge with a cooler mash tun, so not that much different.




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