38 replies to this topic

[Seven]

...I was a homebrewer. Not a frequent homebrewer but one who read a lot about brewing, particularly on internet message boards like this and the green board. Then life got in the way...I got married, bought a house and suddenly had responsibilities, a lawn to mow, weeds to kill, etc. Basically, I've not made beer in probably close to 10 years. I'd like to jump back in very soon but have a few questions that I hope someone can answer:

 

- I have quite a bit of leftover grain, mostly all unmilled. It tasted ok to me last time I tried some but is it still good to use? It's been kept is plastic bags out of direct sunlight in an unheated garage, so the temp fluctuates from between 30F and maybe 90F. All my leaf hops, unfortunately, were tossed about 5 years ago (and there were a LOT of them!).

- Other supplies are also old...things like iodophor, 5.2 mash stabilizer, filled CO2 tanks, etc. (can't recall the actual name). Do these go bad/become less effective?

- My old place was on Philly city water but I'm now on a well that produces very high-iron water, like toilets turning orange high. I have a ph stabilizer (maintains around a 7.0), a softener and a particle filter (0.1 micron I think?). Water tastes fine (tastes very good actually) but pre and post conditioning. Is Ward Labs still the place to get my water tested? Still the W-6 test? Should I sample the water straight from the source or post-softening/buffering/filtering?

 

I was thinking about starting simple with a hefe or pale ale just to get my all-grain feet wet again. 1st batch will primarily be to re-familiarize myself with the process and to see if all my brewing equipment still works. I'll use a dry yeast again to keep things simple. I took a liking to batch sparging before I stopped brewing and fill probably stick with that.

 

I'm sure there are more questions lurking in the deep recesses of my brain but that's all I can think of for now.

Thanks!

[positiveContact]

I've used grain that's 5 years old and it still seems good.  no idea on 10.  the humidity is the biggest thing and I have to think an unconditioned garage could get pretty humid in PA.

 

iodophor I'm not sure.  website says at least 2 years but maybe longer.  that doesn't seem like much help.

 

5.2 mash stabilizer I wouldn't really recommend anyway.  I hear it doesn't really work.

 

the CO2 tanks are likely fine but whenever you get them refilled they'll need a new hydro test if you don't do exchanges.

 

ward is still the place to get tested.  they have a special homebrewers test now but I think whatever that old test was would still do the job and maybe for cheaper.  I have no idea on which water you should use.  obviously whatever you plan to use is what you should have tested by ward.  I'm on city water so this isn't something I've run into.

[BlKtRe]

Welcome back!

 

If it was me Id start fresh with ingredients. You will note that prices have raised significantly on malt and hops over the years.

 

Ward Labs is still the place. If it was me making the jump back in is if my water tasted good out of the faucet I would just run it through a carbon filter and use it. Check your cities water report and get an idea of your PH and if you need to control the mash PH. Then as you go along start messing with other things like treating water. Now if your water sucks then by all means. 

 

Oh Morty, 5.2 works perfectly with my water since it first came out and I still use it. However it doesn't work for everyone. Just to clear the air. 

Edited by BlKtRe, 14 April 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[denny]

FWIW, there are a lot more people who swear at 5.2 than swear by it.  I found that not only did it not work for me, it gave my beer off flavors.  I far prefer to treat the water for each individual beer I make.  There's a lot more to water thsan just pH, anyway.

[HVB]

FWIW, there are a lot more people who swear at 5.2 than swear by it.  I found that not only did it not work for me, it gave my beer off flavors.  I far prefer to treat the water for each individual beer I make.  There's a lot more to water thsan just pH, anyway.

I will jump in to the no 5.2 camp too.

[positiveContact]

Oh Morty, 5.2 works perfectly with my water since it first came out and I still use it. However it doesn't work for everyone. Just to clear the air. 

 

right, can't say I've used it myself.  I can say I have enjoyed crafting the water profile for every beer I make.  just another knob on the recipe formulation if you are into that.

[Bklmt2000]

My 2 cents:

 

- Ditch the 5.2; it's garbage

 

- Dump the old iodophor and get some fresh sanitizer; Star-San is my go-to.

 

- Taste the old grain; if it tastes ok, the resulting beer will taste fine.  Any milled grain, I'd dispose of, as it's likely very stale.

 

- If you can swing it, store your grain somewhere cool/dry (basement, if you have one), preferably not in the garage, and away from open air.  I use Vittles Vaults; have 6 actually, and they work very well.

 

- For a basic pale ale or American wheat-style beer, US-05 is a good choice for a dry yeast.

[BlKtRe]

FWIW, there are a lot more people who swear at 5.2 than swear by it.  I found that not only did it not work for me, it gave my beer off flavors.  I far prefer to treat the water for each individual beer I make.  There's a lot more to water thsan just pH, anyway.

 

You are high!  

 

Or none of the judges can taste worth a crap. Which is a possibility. 

[BlKtRe]

On a serious note. My PH has highs and lows. Averages 8 to upper 9's according to my water report. Using a calibrated PH meter in a wort with no dark grains and using 5.2 as described on the label my PH drops in range of 5.2-5.4. If I use dark grains 5.2 is not needed as the dark grains push the PH inline. So how is this garbage? 

 

Sorry for the hijack SEVEN. 

Edited by BlKtRe, 14 April 2016 - 11:45 AM.

[positiveContact]

On a serious note. My PH has highs and lows. Averages 8 to upper 9's according to my water report. Using a calibrated PH meter in a wort with no dark grains and using 5.2 as described on the label my PH drops in range of 5.2-5.4. If I use dark grains 5.2 is not needed as the dark grains push the PH inline. So how is this garbage? 

 

Sorry for the hijack SEVEN. 

 

it must work with some water and not others.  any idea what's in it?

[HVB]

On a serious note. My PH has highs and lows. Averages 8 to upper 9's according to my water report. Using a calibrated PH meter in a wort with no dark grains and using 5.2 as described on the label my PH drops in range of 5.2-5.4. If I use dark grains 5.2 is not needed as the dark grains push the PH inline. So how is this garbage? 

 

Sorry for the hijack SEVEN. 

NM - no need to derail

Edited by drez77, 14 April 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[Seven]

Thanks, everyone! No worries about the hijack...this is all good knowledge being shared/discussed/argued. I used to use the 5.2 in every mash but it was more out of habit than anything else.

 

I'll stop by the LHBS to pick up some new ingredients, although I am notoriously cheap and will probably still use the old grains over time. I used to rely on color to tell if iodophor was still doing it's job but I guess that's not a reliable indicator after 10 years.

 

BlKtRe, the water source is a well. Good since I know it won't have any chlorine or chloramide (chloramine?) but bad since I can't easily access a city report. Will the high iron negatively affect the mash or final beer in any noticeable way? PH should be neutral or close to it. That's my big worry I guess. Is using softened water bad with all the Na ions in it?

[HVB]

BlKtRe, the water source is a well. Good since I know it won't have any chlorine or chloramide (chloramine?) but bad since I can't easily access a city report. Will the high iron negatively affect the mash or final beer in any noticeable way? PH should be neutral or close to it. That's my big worry I guess. Is using softened water bad with all the Na ions in it?

 

Spend the money and go to Ward and get it tested and you will know what you are working with.  I have a well and tested it 4 years ago and then again last year and the change was very minimal so I am not sure I will do it again any time soon.

[positiveContact]

Thanks, everyone! No worries about the hijack...this is all good knowledge being shared/discussed/argued. I used to use the 5.2 in every mash but it was more out of habit than anything else.

 

I'll stop by the LHBS to pick up some new ingredients, although I am notoriously cheap and will probably still use the old grains over time. I used to rely on color to tell if iodophor was still doing it's job but I guess that's not a reliable indicator after 10 years.

 

BlKtRe, the water source is a well. Good since I know it won't have any chlorine or chloramide (chloramine?) but bad since I can't easily access a city report. Will the high iron negatively affect the mash or final beer in any noticeable way? PH should be neutral or close to it. That's my big worry I guess. Is using softened water bad with all the Na ions in it?

 

I don't think you want too much sodium but I don't know how much you have.  you could send a pre and post water softener sample to ward to decide what you want to do.  or you could buy distilled water and build that up with salts.

[denny]

Thanks, everyone! No worries about the hijack...this is all good knowledge being shared/discussed/argued. I used to use the 5.2 in every mash but it was more out of habit than anything else.

 

I'll stop by the LHBS to pick up some new ingredients, although I am notoriously cheap and will probably still use the old grains over time. I used to rely on color to tell if iodophor was still doing it's job but I guess that's not a reliable indicator after 10 years.

 

BlKtRe, the water source is a well. Good since I know it won't have any chlorine or chloramide (chloramine?) but bad since I can't easily access a city report. Will the high iron negatively affect the mash or final beer in any noticeable way? PH should be neutral or close to it. That's my big worry I guess. Is using softened water bad with all the Na ions in it?

 

Yeah, in general you don't want to use softened water.  You want to keep Na well below 75 ppm.  And even lower for more bitter styles.

[BlKtRe]

Check out Bru'n Water. 

 

httpss://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

[denny]

Check out Bru'n Water. 

 

httpss://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

 

Well, since you went there....

 

SPECIAL NOTE:  Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is indicated by its manufacturer to "lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your water".  Evidence by homebrewers indicates that this product does not produce a mash pH in the preferred room-temperature range of 5.3 to 5.5.  That evidence shows this product does produce some pH moderation in waters with high Residual Alkalinity.  However, the mash pH tends to center around 5.8 (room-temperature measurement).  While 5.8 pH is acceptable, it is at the upper end of the desirable mashing range.  The evidence also shows that in waters with low Residual Alkalinity, this product shows little effect on mash pH.  Since Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is a compound with high sodium content, its use will elevate the sodium concentration in the brewing water.  High sodium content can be undesirable from a taste standpoint in beer.  Proper alkalinity control of mashing and sparging water may produce more acceptable brewing results for most brewers than with the use of 5.2 Stabilizer. To add emphasis to difficulty in using this product, the following conversation posted on Homebrew Talk between noted brewing water expert, AJ DeLange and the chemist from Five Star Chemical regarding their 5.2 Stabilizer product. "Tipped a few last night with the chemist who designed this product and was able to confirm that it is indeed a mix of phosphates (mono and di basic) that accounts for the presence of the malt phosphate. This is something I have long suspected and am pleased to have finally confirmed. Good manners prevented me from pressing him on it's efficacy and suitability relative to the statement on the label. But his comments on it were basically that most brewers shouldn't use it/need it and that it was put together for a particular brewery that had variable source water and no desire to make any effort to track that variability." 

 

 

[Seven]

OK, I think I'm going to send off samples of water straight from the ground and another that's been run through the ph buffer, softener and particle filter. I really want to start off with hot water to cut down on water-heating time but I would need to use conditioned water to do this...I don't like the idea of untreated water going through my tankless heater, pipes, fittings, etc., even though plumbing is PEX. It would also jam up the particle filter pretty quickly.

 

Another question came to mind...I was a Promash user and still have it installed on a very, very old laptop. I probably purchased this 15 years ago and have no idea if updates have been put out or are necessary. Is Promash still used or is there something better and hopefully free? Windows 10 or Android compatible would be ideal.

 

Thanks!

[denny]

I still use Promash.  I haven't found anything any better.

[positiveContact]

just use whatever works for you.  I would say when it comes to water I'd recommend using bru'n water as a stand alone tool for that.