58 replies to this topic

[Steve Urquell]

So, I know I've said a lot of good about their floor malted Bopils. I've made the best beer I've ever brewed with it. First sack of it was great. It tasted nearly like Vienna it was so malty.

The raw grain of this latest sack didn't taste much different than Rahr pils to me. I brewed an EIPA awhile back and added 4lbs of it to 10lbs of GP. That beer tasted funky/dirty. I figured it was the yeast or my inability to brew English ales--bad track record with them. I ended up dumping it.

Well, 2 more batches using the same sack both have the same flavor. My Svetly' and my French/Bohemian IPL. I was't sure if I had an infection or process error and wanted to brew something NOT using that malt to see what was going on. That latest light beer using Rahr pils is perfect. If I had an infection somewhere it would have reared it's head in it.

Ken and I were both following a thread on the FB German brewing group where a couple of people said they had bad experiences with this malt tasting dirty/funky. Looks like Weyermann has a problem here. Sucks cuz I have a partial sack of it and another full sack of it.

Edited by chils, 23 April 2016 - 03:33 AM.

[SchwanzBrewer]

That sucks. I've never used it. Weyermann pils is my go to. I wonder if a batch got a little moldy pre kiln.

[Steve Urquell]

That sucks. I've never used it. Weyermann pils is my go to. I wonder if a batch got a little moldy pre kiln.

Sounds like it. I havent opened the second bag but they were bought at the same time from same place. I'll be really bummed if I have to dump a whole sack.

[neddles]

Chils, have you contacted Weyermann about it?

 

Also, does your bag have a lot number on it or a QR code for scanning? I have an unopened bag and it looks like you can get data on the lot by scanning the QR code. Maybe they are aware of the problem and have some info/recourse about it? 

[Big Nake]

Of all the pilsner brands I have used (Durst, Best, Avangard, Dingemans, Weyermann), Weyermann is the only brand that I have seen questioned by brewers before. A number of other people have mentioned that they feel it's inconsistent, not necessarily "BAD" but just not the same every time they use it. Surprising for sure and it makes me want to stay away from it. The Floor-malted stuff I used on a helles (first time using the malt) was great and made a very nice beer. But it makes me want to just stick with Best Malz. Hey, it's called BEST for a reason!

[Steve Urquell]

Chils, have you contacted Weyermann about it?
 
Also, does your bag have a lot number on it or a QR code for scanning? I have an unopened bag and it looks like you can get data on the lot by scanning the QR code. Maybe they are aware of the problem and have some info/recourse about it?

 I'll contact them and see what happens. Nothing to lose.
 

Of all the pilsner brands I have used (Durst, Best, Avangard, Dingemans, Weyermann), Weyermann is the only brand that I have seen questioned by brewers before. A number of other people have mentioned that they feel it's inconsistent, not necessarily "BAD" but just not the same every time they use it. Surprising for sure and it makes me want to stay away from it. The Floor-malted stuff I used on a helles (first time using the malt) was great and made a very nice beer. But it makes me want to just stick with Best Malz. Hey, it's called BEST for a reason!

Yeah, I fear this has got me burned on Weyermann. Too much time tied up in making quality lagers to be sabotaged by bad ingredients.

[MyaCullen]

That sucks man

[Big Nake]

Yeah, I fear this has got me burned on Weyermann. Too much time tied up in making quality lagers to be sabotaged by bad ingredients.

This. For sure. Brewers tend to be creatures of habit and occasionally can even be superstitious. You could use [this malt] for one hundred batches in a row and as soon as you use [that malt] and you have a not-so-good batch of beer... BAM! That's bad malt! I have been screwed by hops that were not up to par and maybe I should have known as soon as I opened them. But when you put 4 or 5 hours into a brewday and end up with subpar beer through no fault of your own... that's not good. So was this last one "dirty"-tasting or just not as robust as you had experienced in the past? Did you also mention a beer recently that seemed to have no punch to it at all? Low maltiness, blah hops and just no flavor and no character? What was the issue there... Weyermann malt, old hops?

[neddles]

If Weyermann doesn't have any info on Chil's batch of malt I would have to wonder if it was mishandled somewhere in the supply chain... Bag got wet, humid storage, etc. If they put out a whole batch of malt that tasted that way they would be ruining a lot of beer, much of it at commercial breweries. Seems like something QC would catch but who knows.

[Steve Urquell]

This. For sure. Brewers tend to be creatures of habit and occasionally can even be superstitious. You could use [this malt] for one hundred batches in a row and as soon as you use [that malt] and you have a not-so-good batch of beer... BAM! That's bad malt! I have been screwed by hops that were not up to par and maybe I should have known as soon as I opened them. But when you put 4 or 5 hours into a brewday and end up with subpar beer through no fault of your own... that's not good. So was this last one "dirty"-tasting or just not as robust as you had experienced in the past? Did you also mention a beer recently that seemed to have no punch to it at all? Low maltiness, blah hops and just no flavor and no character? What was the issue there... Weyermann malt, old hops?

The batch I talked to you about was one of the 3. Dirty tasting, hops and malt character obscured by the off flavor. Initially thought it was the hops but the other batches used different hops and yeast. Only connection was the newly opened bag of floor malt.

[Big Nake]

The batch I talked to you about was one of the 3. Dirty tasting, hops and malt character obscured by the off flavor. Initially thought it was the hops but the other batches used different hops and yeast. Only connection was the newly opened bag of floor malt.

Mmm, seems like an issue and that is really discouraging because I find it tough to tell when malt is not up to par. Hops, maybe. Yeast, probably. But malt... I don't know that I have ever looked at malt or smelled it, tasted it and thought it was not good to use.

[Steve Urquell]

Mmm, seems like an issue and that is really discouraging because I find it tough to tell when malt is not up to par. Hops, maybe. Yeast, probably. But malt... I don't know that I have ever looked at malt or smelled it, tasted it and thought it was not good to use.

I had a real good idea of how my last bag of floor malt tasted raw. Tasted it SxS with Best Malz and it tasted way more malty. This stuff tasted as bland as Rahr pils. Chalked it up to varying malting as it was old tech.

[MyaCullen]

I had a real good idea of how my last bag of floor malt tasted raw. Tasted it SxS with Best Malz and it tasted way more malty. This stuff tasted as bland as Rahr pils. Chalked it up to varying malting as it was old tech.

floor malting fell out of favor for a reason

[neddles]

floor malting fell out of favor for a reason

Its costly and labor intensive?

[Big Nake]

Its costly and labor intensive?

... and inconsistent?

[MyaCullen]

Its costly and labor intensive?

  

... and inconsistent?

all of the above

[Big Nake]

I kind of consider Weyermann to be one of the leading malsters in Germany. Am I wrong on that? I've used a lot of German malts and I feel like they're the pinnacle of Germany malting. Not sure where I got that or if I'm right but I just can't see a place like that turning out inconsistent product unless it was just a one-off goof and they know that all of the malt in lot 10997-E was bad or something. It turns me off and I'll probably stay away from it. Also, this is coupled with the fact that when I recently made a pils that fell flat somehow (tasted dirty), I used regular Weyermann Pils. It could've been my own fault but I don't know what misstep I would take to get a beer to taste dirty.

[Steve Urquell]

I kind of consider Weyermann to be one of the leading malsters in Germany. Am I wrong on that? I've used a lot of German malts and I feel like they're the pinnacle of Germany malting. Not sure where I got that or if I'm right but I just can't see a place like that turning out inconsistent product unless it was just a one-off goof and they know that all of the malt in lot 10997-E was bad or something. It turns me off and I'll probably stay away from it. Also, this is coupled with the fact that when I recently made a pils that fell flat somehow (tasted dirty), I used regular Weyermann Pils. It could've been my own fault but I don't know what misstep I would take to get a beer to taste dirty.

Yep. I didn't want to say anything bad about the malt until I was absolutely certain I had eliminated other factors in my process. This flavor is unlike fermentation flaws or oxidized hop flavors. Beer is beautifuly clear. Underlying yeast flavor is nice on the Svetly'.
Makes you doubt your process until you've brewed a batch NOT using that ingredient that comes out up to your usual standards.
Dirty/moldy is a good descriptor for this flaw. XX amber has this flavor if you pour it in a glass and leave the lime out.

[neddles]

  all of the above

There are quite a few places utilizing floor malting these days. Weyermann, Crisp, Prairie, Warminster, and I think even Valley Malt added floor malting to their process. I think a lot of distilleries who malt their own grain often use floor maltings too. The inconsistency is supposedly it's appeal. I don't think flavors of mold are a part of that inconsistency, most of these malts are being used by commercial brewhouses. New Glarus uses it in Two Women. I've got to think a place like Weyermann has a lot to lose and one would think their QC would know about it. But I'm sure screw ups can happen. I'll be curious to hear what chils finds out from them.

 

Side story. I little while back a guy on another forum noticed his Best Pils was particularly acidic in his mashes. He finally contacted Best about it and gave them the lot number from his bag. They told him that lot was accidentally mixed in with some acid malt. Stuff happens apparently and I wonder what they do to recall that malt. Or maybe it was recalled and someone along the way sold it anyways. Who knows.

[denny]

I used Weyermann for a long time and found some inconsistencies.  I thought I was crazy based on their reputation, but when I switched to Durst I got better tasting results.  When I once again switched to Best, I put Weyermann far in the past and haven't been back.

I kind of consider Weyermann to be one of the leading malsters in Germany. Am I wrong on that? I've used a lot of German malts and I feel like they're the pinnacle of Germany malting. Not sure where I got that or if I'm right but I just can't see a place like that turning out inconsistent product unless it was just a one-off goof and they know that all of the malt in lot 10997-E was bad or something. It turns me off and I'll probably stay away from it. Also, this is coupled with the fact that when I recently made a pils that fell flat somehow (tasted dirty), I used regular Weyermann Pils. It could've been my own fault but I don't know what misstep I would take to get a beer to taste dirty.

 

FWIW, Avangard is the largest maltster in Germant.  And they make some great stuff.