45 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

Is the use of crystal/cara malts considered "not authentic" in an altbier? I was thinking that pils, munich and Carafa Special would be the extent of it. I had a recipe where I used some C80 and I thought the beer came out well but I was also pretty sure that the crystal was a no-no. Cheers guys and thanks for the replies.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Is the use of crystal/cara malts considered "not authentic" in an altbier? I was thinking that pils, munich and Carafa Special would be the extent of it. I had a recipe where I used some C80 and I thought the beer came out well but I was also pretty sure that the crystal was a no-no. Cheers guys and thanks for the replies.

 

I don't really get caramel from it. Nothing like using C-60.

I think it rounds out the munich and pils flavors.

[MtnBrewer]

I try to keep crystal malt to a minimum in an alt but I do think you need a little bit. You want it to finish dry but also be malty. I've tried it without and it lacks something....maybe caramel flavor. My recipe is a lot like the one Schwanz posted. I think I use a little less CM III.

[Steve Urquell]

Looks like me and Chils think alike...

 Strange that we formulated pretty much the same recipe.
 

I don't really get caramel from it. Nothing like using C-60.

I think it rounds out the munich and pils flavors.

I get a candy-like sweetness on the back of my tongue from CM as an aftertaste. I like it much better than domestic crystal. I use it just because I like it's flavor. I'm not concerned with style guidelines--brew to my tastes.

[djinkc]

Here's one that placed won first round 2013 Nationals.  Not very different from one that placed 2nd in Amber Hybrids at KCBM a couple years before.  Fun year, kinda forgot about it my Steam took first.

 

11.5 gallons in the fermenter

 

12# Pilsner (Canada Malting - deal with it )

9# light Munich (Canada Malting)

1.5# Melanoidin

0.25# Carafa III

 

1.5 hour mash 145df

75 min boil

 

2 oz Gr Magnum 12.0 AAU - 60 minutes

4 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh 3.0 AAU - 30 minutes

2oz Hallertau Mittlefruh 3.0 AAU - 15 minutes

 

Wyeast 1007, OG 1.058, FG dry, 61 IBUs

 

That's pushing Sticke territory but I always did better with bigger alts when I was entering more comps

 

The 2011 was virtually the same except Gr. Spalt was used for the last two additions,  OG and IBUs were slightly lower.

 

Fermented at the lower end of 1007's range and lagered at 38df  for at least a month - probably longer.  38 is what my conditioning freezer is set at.

Edited by djinkc, 02 May 2016 - 04:09 PM.

[cavman]

I try to keep crystal malt to a minimum in an alt and everything else.

FTFM

[Brauer]

Is the use of crystal/cara malts considered "not authentic" in an altbier? I was thinking that pils, munich and Carafa Special would be the extent of it. I had a recipe where I used some C80 and I thought the beer came out well but I was also pretty sure that the crystal was a no-no. Cheers guys and thanks for the replies.

I'm sure that different breweries use different amounts. Uerige appears to use the equivalent of about 1.75-2.5 oz of Crystal Malt per 5 gallons, depending on their efficiency. They don't use Munich malt, so I often leave it out when I use Munich malt, to help it finish dry. You don't really need it if you get a rich, malty flavor from your Pilsner malt. I might also make a different decision when making an Alt without hop flavor.

[MtnBrewer]

FTFM

 

*crotch bump*

[Big Nake]

Someone posted pics on FB of their eating & drinking session in Dusseldorf, complete with shots of some nice-looking Altbier. I came back to this thread and put together a recipe loosely based on some of these (mostly Rich's recipe which was close to Chils' and some others too). I plan to make this over the weekend if things go properly.

Dusseldorf Altbier

6 lbs German Pilsner Malt (Best, probably)
3 lbs Weyermann Munich I
6 ounces CaraMunich
1½ ounces German Carafa Special III
.45 ounces Nugget pellets @ 14.9% (about 28 IBUs) for 60
1 ounce Spalt Select 4.6% for 10 minutes
1007 German Ale yeast

OG: 1.052, FG: 1.011, SRM: 13, IBU: 39, ABV: 5.0%

I haven't made an Altbier in awhile and with some of the latest tricks, I think I could make something really nice. I'm going to mash low (about 150) for 60 minutes and use 'balanced' water where the chloride and sulfate are within a few ticks of each other. One thing I used to like about using secondaries was that I might make TWO batches like this, drink one and then break out the other one a few weeks or months later. Without secondary, if I made two of these back-to-back they will end up in kegs together and probably be served very close to each other which would not be quite as nice as being able to break it out when I wanted. Either that or I'll find a recipe for a Munster Alt or something so that they're similar but different enough. Cheers peeps.

[HVB]

Thanks Ken, now I want an alt!

 

[Big Nake]

Thanks Ken, now I want an alt!
 

I know, me too. And as is the case with most Euro beers... you must make it yourself so it's fresh and brewed to your tastes. I think I made a number of bad alt batches years ago and determined that it wasn't my style or something. Kind of like you guys with MLPA. I am a better brewer now and if I can make a finesse beer like a helles, I should be able to pull this off. Here's one of the shots the guy posted...

[denny]

Thanks gang. I think this guy is looking for "authentic" and Chils, I was thinking that the ingredients in a Dunkel could work in an alt although the hops and yeast might be changed and it might not be as dark. Dark Munich, pilsner, some Carafa... what hops? Perle? A good, firm bitterness and then personal choice on hops later. 1007 would be my choice on yeast, personally. Thanks again.

 

If you want authentic, look for the Zum Uerige recipe I posted on the AHA forum.  It's from the brewmaster himself, so it doesn't get much more authentic!

[Big Nake]

If you want authentic, look for the Zum Uerige recipe I posted on the AHA forum.  It's from the brewmaster himself, so it doesn't get much more authentic!

I just saw that earlier today... link is HERE. You also posted it on AHA and someone asked why the recipe appears so low on the malt... there is only 6 pounds of malt in that recipe so I wasn't sure how to go about making it. Did you brew that recipe and if so, did you adjust it?

[denny]

I just saw that earlier today... link is HERE. You also posted it on AHA and someone asked why the recipe appears so low on the malt... there is only 6 pounds of malt in that recipe so I wasn't sure how to go about making it. Did you brew that recipe and if so, did you adjust it?

 

Yeah, I adjusted it to my system size and efficiency.  Like you should with every recipe.

[Brauer]

I just saw that earlier today... link is HERE. You also posted it on AHA and someone asked why the recipe appears so low on the malt... there is only 6 pounds of malt in that recipe so I wasn't sure how to go about making it. Did you brew that recipe and if so, did you adjust it?

I looks like I have the Uerige recipe scaled to 80% efficiency near the bottom of the previous page.

[HVB]

Here's one of the shots the guy posted...

Hey, I was at that place too. By then it was late in the night and we had Alts and shots there. Then our "tour guides" left and we stumbled around Duesseldorf for a while looks for the trains... Good times!

[Big Nake]

I looks like I have the Uerige recipe scaled to 80% efficiency near the bottom of the previous page.

I see that you also mentioned there that you like some munich in yours but then you do away with the CaraMunich. Do you think that my 3 pounds of Munich 1 + 6 ounces of CaraMunich in 5 gallons will be too much? I know Denny's recipe shows NO MUNICH but I think I would want some amount of Munich in there. I could lower the CaraMunich or scratch it altogether. I'm not as up on this style as I should be for some reason. I just don't make it that often and I also don't buy commercial versions of it because I'm not sure what shape it will be in.

[Poptop]

I've always wanted to make Denny's Milo's Alt
https://hbd.org/club...es/recipes.html

[Brauer]

I see that you also mentioned there that you like some munich in yours but then you do away with the CaraMunich. Do you think that my 3 pounds of Munich 1 + 6 ounces of CaraMunich in 5 gallons will be too much? I know Denny's recipe shows NO MUNICH but I think I would want some amount of Munich in there. I could lower the CaraMunich or scratch it altogether. I'm not as up on this style as I should be for some reason. I just don't make it that often and I also don't buy commercial versions of it because I'm not sure what shape it will be in.

I'd keep it at 2-3 oz, either way, but, considering that you are already pushing the OG up toward the high end, I'd drop it, or just wave a little in the general direction of the mash tun.

An Alt can't taste like an Alt without finishing dry, IMO, and Crystal Malt is going to be fighting you and trying to turn it into a Brown Ale.

[Big Nake]

I'd keep it at 2-3 oz, either way, but, considering that you are already pushing the OG up toward the high end, I'd drop it, or just wave a little in the general direction of the mash tun.

An Alt can't taste like an Alt without finishing dry, IMO, and Crystal Malt is going to be fighting you and trying to turn it into a Brown Ale.

I hear that. Thanks for the reply. I am treating this sort of like a helles in that it should "feel malty" but finish dry. I plan to achieve the dry finish with the 1007 yeast (a high attenuater), a balanced water profile and a relatively low mash temp (150 on my system is used for helles too). The maltiness will come from the Munich and probably from the CaraMunich which you've convinced me to lower to 3 ounces or so... seems totally reasonable. I think I'm making this beer on Saturday. Thanks to all for the direction on a style I like but don't make often enough. Cheers.