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Keg to keg transfers


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#1 neddles

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:10 AM

In the interest of keeping Drez on his game today... I want to do a keg to keg tranfer that includes both gas and liquid jumpers. How do you guys do it? Cold beer, warm beer? Cold kegs, temp doesnt matter? Speed is not a factor I just want to do it closed and sans foaming. No open PRV.

ETA: I would prefer to keep the beer I am moving warm/room temp if possible.

Edited by neddles, 03 May 2016 - 09:31 AM.


#2 HVB

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:51 AM

Supply keg get CO2 hooked up and beer out hooked up.  Receiving keg - the beer out is hooked up to the beer out of the supply and the gas is hooked up with a short hose going into sanatizer.  I will push it up 5 PSI and once it is all moved I remove the gas in from the receiving keg but leave the gas and beer connected to fill the headspace with CO2.  I purge the pressure relief a couple times doing this.  That is all for non-carbonated beer and usually at "cellar" temps.

 

If the beer is carbonated I try to get the receiving keg at the same temp as the beer and I tend to push slower because if foam.  I will also keep some back pressure on the recieving keg by not having the gas "bleeder" hooked up the entire time.  I need to try this with a spunding valve, a modified one with no gauge on it, to see if I can just keep the back pressure with that.  I tend to not move much beer that is fully carbonated.  When I do transfers it will have a few PSI but will still need a bit of time in the serving keg to be ready to go.

 

This is how I do it, it works for me but I am sure there are other ways.



#3 neddles

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 11:54 AM

Thanks. This beer is partly carbonated. Probably more so than not. I think what would like to try is getting the receiving keg cold (it will have dry hops in it) and purged and then pressurized to like 10 or 15 psi. Then pressurize the full keg to the same pressure. Hook up gas to gas and liquid to liquid and elevate the full keg a little. Pull the PRV on the receiving keg just enough to get it going. Thoughts?



#4 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:08 PM

If you could hook up a needle valve to the gas out of the receiving keg, you might get less foaming-compared to pulling the prv. I think you're going to be pretty foamy no mater what due to the dry hops-lots of nucleation sites. 



#5 neddles

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:12 PM

If you could hook up a needle valve to the gas out of the receiving keg, you might get less foaming-compared to pulling the prv.

Why would that work better than having a gas to gas hooked up? If I elevate the full keg just slightly it should start a really slow siphon under pressure, no? Pulling the PRV is for a second or so to drop the pressure enough to overcome the line resistance.

 

 

I think you're going to be pretty foamy no mater what due to the dry hops-lots of nucleation sites. 

You may be right about that, FML.



#6 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:19 PM

Why would that work better than having a gas to gas hooked up? If I elevate the full keg just slightly it should start a really slow siphon under pressure, no? Pulling the PRV is for a second or so to drop the pressure enough to overcome the line resistance.

 

 

You may be right about that, FML.

I was thinking about slowly releasing the pressure in the receiving keg to slowly draw in the beer. Your way might be better if the siphon works. I see what you're saying. I'm interested to hear your results. 



#7 HVB

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:23 PM

. I think you're going to be pretty foamy no mater what due to the dry hops-lots of nucleation sites. 

I have not had that issue. 



#8 neddles

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:27 PM

I have not had that issue. 

That's good to know as I know you have done this many times.

 

 

I was thinking about slowly releasing the pressure in the receiving keg to slowly draw in the beer. Your way might be better if the siphon works. I see what you're saying. I'm interested to hear your results. 

I am thinking worst case is that I do get some foam and that it will simply be pushed back into the elevated keg via the gas line since everything is completely closed. I will report on the success of this technique. Now if I can just find time to do it.



#9 neddles

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 05:38 AM

So I did this keg-keg transfer last night. It worked great with no foaming through the gas line. So if there was any foaming in there it must have been minimal. Below is the procedure I used.

 

I put the bagged dry hops in the receiving keg purged it thoroughly from the bottom up. Let it rest a bit and purged one more time. Then I chilled the receiving keg. Next, I pressurized both kegs to 10 psi. Placed the donor keg slightly elevated above the receiving keg and hooked up a gas to gas jumper to make sure pressure in the kegs was equalized. Then disconnected the gas jumper from the receiving keg. Then I hooked up a liquid to liquid jumper between the kegs and pulled the PRV on the receiving keg enough to get the siphon going. (didn't take much) As soon as the beer began to siphon over to the receiving keg I hooked the gas-gas jumper back up to the receiving keg. Voila, closed keg to keg transfer under pressure with room temp beer.

 

Note: If you have the donor keg well above the receiving keg this method is "set it and forget it" but the beer will run faster and (possibly) foam more. If you want to slow the beer down to minimize foam you can simply drop the level of the receiving keg relative to the donor keg a few times during the process to keep the beer running.

 

I wonder if doing this under even higher pressure reduces the chances of foaming even more? My gut says yes, but I haven't really thought it through completely.



#10 HVB

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 05:43 AM

Excellent!!  I will be doing this over the weekend but it will be fermetner to keg closed transfer.



#11 2ndstage

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 05:55 AM

I do it all the time for the beers I take to events.  Nothing I hate worse than a beautifully clear beer pouring like mud after its taken out of the kegerator.  I tend to rack to keg.  Gel and wait till carbonation is good then pour the first couple of cloudy/gelled pints off then take a new keg and vacate with co2.  Lower sending kegs pressure to about 6 or so and hookup a line out to line out to receiving keg.  Vent the prv on receiving keg and off it goes.  Never had much of any foaming issues.  Just more kegs to clean.


Chunky/cloudy beer isn't a selling point for our future brewpub.  Hosting an event tonight for a running club here in Amarillo.  Serving a bock, pale ale and the latest pull off of my solera barrel.  



#12 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 05:56 AM

So I did this keg-keg transfer last night. It worked great with no foaming through the gas line. So if there was any foaming in there it must have been minimal. Below is the procedure I used.

 

I put the bagged dry hops in the receiving keg purged it thoroughly from the bottom up. Let it rest a bit and purged one more time. Then I chilled the receiving keg. Next, I pressurized both kegs to 10 psi. Placed the donor keg slightly elevated above the receiving keg and hooked up a gas to gas jumper to make sure pressure in the kegs was equalized. Then disconnected the gas jumper from the receiving keg. Then I hooked up a liquid to liquid jumper between the kegs and pulled the PRV on the receiving keg enough to get the siphon going. (didn't take much) As soon as the beer began to siphon over to the receiving keg I hooked the gas-gas jumper back up to the receiving keg. Voila, closed keg to keg transfer under pressure with room temp beer.

 

Note: If you have the donor keg well above the receiving keg this method is "set it and forget it" but the beer will run faster and (possibly) foam more. If you want to slow the beer down to minimize foam you can simply drop the level of the receiving keg relative to the donor keg a few times during the process to keep the beer running.

 

I wonder if doing this under even higher pressure reduces the chances of foaming even more? My gut says yes, but I haven't really thought it through completely.

 

Awesome! Thanks for the info!



#13 gnef

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 10:54 PM

Like mentioned above a spunding valve is fantastic for this purpose, and one of the few real uses I have for the two I made (one each for ball lock and pin lock). This allows me to transfer at a higher pressure, and not worry about the transfer. Once I see the line get cloudy or gas in the line, I quickly remove the disconnect so that minimal sediment is transferred.




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