239 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

After all of this low-O2 talk, I have wondered how everyone here treats the idea of O2-pickup in your brewing. I have always heard to be careful with O2 pickup after fermentation. I mentioned in the other thread that oxidation probably runs the range from "low" to "very high" and I admit that I occasionally taste something in my beers that I ordinarily attribute to something having to do with water and it could actually be "oxidized beer" character. It's the type of thing that varies enough that some beers may have "some" while other batches have more. So do you go to various lengths to lower O2 pickup throughout your brewday? I realize everyone's system is different but...

* Do you boil your mash and sparge water and chill it to strike temp?
* Do you slowly add water and grains or do you pour water into the MT?
* Do you use SMB in the mash to protect against oxidation?
* Do you stir the mash slowly to avoid oxidation?
* Do you boil less-vigorously?
* Do you use an SS chiller because copper is supposedly oxidizing the wort?
* Do you chill without stirring or stir slowly to avoid oxidation?
* Do you rack from kettle to primary slowly to avoid/reduce oxidation?

I've mentioned before that I splash my way through brewday. I pour mash and sparge water. I stir the mash vigorously. I boil hard. I stir vigorously once my chill is under 100°. I splash the wort from kettle to primary. I do not use SMB. My next brewday will employ some new techniques but I'm not necessarily going to go crazy on this. I'm going to see if a different approach would produce beers that are noticeably better and see if the character I've been picking up occasionally is "oxidized beer". Cheers.

[darkmagneto]

all this talk of oxygen is making me thirsty.      

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

* Do you boil your mash and sparge water and chill it to strike temp? Nope, how much o2 can there be at 170F vs 212?
* Do you slowly add water and grains or do you pour water into the MT? All water goes into mash tun then grains get stirred in.
* Do you use SMB in the mash to protect against oxidation? Nope
* Do you stir the mash slowly to avoid oxidation? I stir it enough to wet all the grain
* Do you boil less-vigorously? Moderately vigorous. Boiling drives off oxygen, not sure why o2 would be an issue during the boil.
* Do you use an SS chiller because copper is supposedly oxidizing the wort? Nope
* Do you chill without stirring or stir slowly to avoid oxidation? I spin with a whirlpool pump.
* Do you rack from kettle to primary slowly to avoid/reduce oxidation? Nope. I'm just about to add a hole bunch of o2 to the wort. 

[SchwanzBrewer]

* Do you boil your mash and sparge water and chill it to strike temp? Hell No.

* Do you slowly add water and grains or do you pour water into the MT? Relatively slowly let in from the bottom, but only because the pumps can't go any faster.

* Do you use SMB in the mash to protect against oxidation? No, I use some KMeta in the mash/sparge to get rid of any residual chlorine and chloromine that the charcoal filter doesn't get

* Do you stir the mash slowly to avoid oxidation? No. I mix it as fast as I can to avoid losing heat, but it's relatively gentle since it's a lot to stir

* Do you boil less-vigorously? Hell no, isomerize those hops like they are your bitch. Also I want a consistent boil off rate and full blast furnace is easier to gauge than less than that.

* Do you use an SS chiller because copper is supposedly oxidizing the wort? No, I use a stainless plate chiller because they last longer.

* Do you chill without stirring or stir slowly to avoid oxidation? No, I don't stir because I don't need to.

* Do you rack from kettle to primary slowly to avoid/reduce oxidation? No, I go as fast as necessary to get the correct chilling so as to not temperature shock the yeast.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Ken- have you listened to this? https://beersmith.co...ith-podcast-74/

 

Seems like an easy improvement for fresh tasting beer is to keep it cold immediately after fermentation.

[Big Nake]

I have not listened to that but I will.

You know, there is a lot of information on this low-O2 and it seems that most brewers don't look into ANY of this. My palate is not formally trained so I don't know what to expect from oxidation. I have always heard "cardboard" is oxidation but I don't get cardboard from my beer.

Seems like an easy improvement for fresh tasting beer is to keep it cold immediately after fermentation.

So don't allow the beer to warm up at all? Even with lagers where a d-rest may be required? Or are they debunking d-rests now?

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I would consider d rest as part of fermentation as the yeast are actively consuming the diacetyl but some brewers feel it isn't necessary if you pitch enough yeast. 

[denny]

After all of this low-O2 talk, I have wondered how everyone here treats the idea of O2-pickup in your brewing. I have always heard to be careful with O2 pickup after fermentation. I mentioned in the other thread that oxidation probably runs the range from "low" to "very high" and I admit that I occasionally taste something in my beers that I ordinarily attribute to something having to do with water and it could actually be "oxidized beer" character. It's the type of thing that varies enough that some beers may have "some" while other batches have more. So do you go to various lengths to lower O2 pickup throughout your brewday? I realize everyone's system is different but...* Do you boil your mash and sparge water and chill it to strike temp?* Do you slowly add water and grains or do you pour water into the MT?* Do you use SMB in the mash to protect against oxidation?* Do you stir the mash slowly to avoid oxidation?* Do you boil less-vigorously?* Do you use an SS chiller because copper is supposedly oxidizing the wort?* Do you chill without stirring or stir slowly to avoid oxidation?* Do you rack from kettle to primary slowly to avoid/reduce oxidation?I've mentioned before that I splash my way through brewday. I pour mash and sparge water. I stir the mash vigorously. I boil hard. I stir vigorously once my chill is under 100°. I splash the wort from kettle to primary. I do not use SMB. My next brewday will employ some new techniques but I'm not necessarily going to go crazy on this. I'm going to see if a different approach would produce beers that are noticeably better and see if the character I've been picking up occasionally is "oxidized beer". Cheers.

No pre boiling
I pour
I have used both SMB and PMB without noticeable effect
I stir the mash thoroughly but not violently
I use a copper chiller
I use a pump to recirculate as I chill
I pump from kettle to primary making sure the wort splashes
I win awards when I enter comps

I have not listened to that but I will.You know, there is a lot of information on this low-O2 and it seems that most brewers don't look into ANY of this. My palate is not formally trained so I don't know what to expect from oxidation. I have always heard "cardboard" is oxidation but I don't get cardboard from my beer.So don't allow the beer to warm up at all? Even with lagers where a d-rest may be required? Or are they debunking d-rests now?

Cardboard is only one indicator. Mettalic or exaggerated caramel notes are others.

I would consider d rest as part of fermentation as the yeast are actively consuming the diacetyl but some brewers feel it isn't necessary if you pitch enough yeast.

I only need a d rest on about one in every twenty or so lagers I make.

[MtnBrewer]

You know, there is a lot of information on this low-O2 and it seems that most brewers don't look into ANY of this. My palate is not formally trained so I don't know what to expect from oxidation. I have always heard "cardboard" is oxidation but I don't get cardboard from my beer.

 

I usually don't get cardboard unless the oxidation is really severe. More often it's just a slight staleness, sometimes a little musty like a damp basement. Also it usually doesn't show up in a fresh beer. It takes some time to manifest itself.

[HVB]

After all of this low-O2 talk, I have wondered how everyone here treats the idea of O2-pickup in your brewing. I have always heard to be careful with O2 pickup after fermentation. I mentioned in the other thread that oxidation probably runs the range from "low" to "very high" and I admit that I occasionally taste something in my beers that I ordinarily attribute to something having to do with water and it could actually be "oxidized beer" character. It's the type of thing that varies enough that some beers may have "some" while other batches have more. So do you go to various lengths to lower O2 pickup throughout your brewday? I realize everyone's system is different but...

* Do you boil your mash and sparge water and chill it to strike temp?No and have no plans to
* Do you slowly add water and grains or do you pour water into the MT?  Depends, I sometimes unerlet but I often times do not and just pump into the MLT where the grain is already waiting.
* Do you use SMB in the mash to protect against oxidation?  Up till a few days ago I had no idea what SMB was so ... NO
* Do you stir the mash slowly to avoid oxidation?  No, I mix it up pretty good and re-circulate the entire mash.  The house output is under the water level
* Do you boil less-vigorously?  Note sure what that is.  I do not boil out of the pot but it is moving.  I leave my controller on 100% for 1-2 minutes then drop it to 75%
* Do you use an SS chiller because copper is supposedly oxidizing the wort?  No, I use a full copper CFC.  I have a SS IM that I have used for a post chiller only
* Do you chill without stirring or stir slowly to avoid oxidation?  I whirlpool back into my kettle, the output of the whirlpool is under the top of the liquid
* Do you rack from kettle to primary slowly to avoid/reduce oxidation? Not really, I rack from the cfc to my fermetner that is generally closed through a tri-clamp fitting

I've mentioned before that I splash my way through brewday. I pour mash and sparge water. I stir the mash vigorously. I boil hard. I stir vigorously once my chill is under 100°. I splash the wort from kettle to primary. I do not use SMB. My next brewday will employ some new techniques but I'm not necessarily going to go crazy on this. I'm going to see if a different approach would produce beers that are noticeably better and see if the character I've been picking up occasionally is "oxidized beer". Cheers.

 

This is my boil intensity.  I am not sure how you classify that. 

[neddles]

This is my boil intensity.  I am not sure how you classify that. 

That's how mine looks, about 1.2 gal/hr boil-off.

Edited by neddles, 03 May 2016 - 12:31 PM.

[HVB]

That's how mine looks, about 1.2 gal/hr boil-off.

for me it is 1.5g/hr but I do blast it at 100% in the beginning.

[MtnBrewer]

This is my boil intensity.  I am not sure how you classify that.

 
This is Flying Dog's.
 

[HVB]

 
This is Flying Dog's.
 
 

 

Looks like a simmer

[Big Nake]

My impression is that with all of the stuff that brewers discuss (recipes, equipment, mash schedule, etc), that I had not paid a lot of attention to some of this stuff and that other people knew to "treat everything gently" all through the process and that I just missed it. When I had always heard that you can splash on the way to the fermenter because the yeast needs the additional O2, I assumed that was a good thing. If none of you are paying any attention to any of this stuff... I don't feel so bad.

[MtnBrewer]

My impression is that with all of the stuff that brewers discuss (recipes, equipment, mash schedule, etc), that I had not paid a lot of attention to some of this stuff and that other people knew to "treat everything gently" all through the process and that I just missed it. When I had always heard that you can splash on the way to the fermenter because the yeast needs the additional O2, I assumed that was a good thing. If none of you are paying any attention to any of this stuff... I don't feel so bad.

I don't go out of my way to splash the wort around (except going into the fermenter) but I don't really do much to minimize it either. After fermentation is a different story, however.

[HVB]

I don't go out of my way to splash the wort around (except going into the fermenter) but I don't really do much to minimize it either. After fermentation is a different story, however.

Agree with this.

[Big Nake]

Agree with this.

I don't go out of my way to splash the wort around (except going into the fermenter) but I don't really do much to minimize it either. After fermentation is a different story, however.

Yeah, that's a good point. Sending the beer to secondary could be an issue with an open transfer to an unpurged Better Bottle. I do purge my kegs but I still do an open transfer from secondary to [purged] keg. I wonder if skipping secondary or just making sure all vessels are purged first would be a good idea.

[neddles]

I wonder if skipping secondary or just making sure all vessels are purged first would be a good idea.

What is the purpose of the secondary for the majority of the beers you are making?

[MtnBrewer]

I haven't done a secondary in years (other than something like a sour where it needs to age for months). Like neddles, I'm wondering what the purpose is.