25 replies to this topic

[Seven]

I just received the test results from 2 samples I sent to Ward Labs last week. As I mentioned in another thread, I've been away from brewing for probably a decade but want to resume. My old place was on city water but now I'm on a well. The 1st sample was simply run through a sediment/particle filter (1 micron)...my water softener and ph buffer was bypassed. The 2nd sample was run through the softener, ph buffer and particle filter. Both samples were drawn hot but that shouldn't make too much of a difference since I have a tankless water heater.

 

Any and all thoughts are appreciated. I have no idea how to interpret these results but I have a feeling that I'm not going to like the answer. I was expecting the 2 samples to be very different...I was also expecting my iron # to be significantly higher given how orange the particle filter gets with use and how orange my toilets get when the softener is bypassed.

 

Thanks!

 

Particle Filter only

pH 7.7

TDS 191

Electrical conductivity 0.32

Cation/Anions 3.6/3.6

Sodium   78

Potassium < 1

Calcium 3

Magnesium < 1

Total hardness 12

Nitrate 2.6

Sulfate 2

Chloride 8

Carbonate < 1

Bicarbonate 184

Total alkalinity 151

Total phosphorus 0.04

Total iron 0.05

 

Softened/buffered/filtered

pH 7.3

TDS 177

Electrical conductivity 0.30

Cation/Anions 3.4/3.3

Sodium   78

Potassium < 1

Calcium 0

Magnesium < 1

Total hardness < 1

Nitrate 3.8

Sulfate 2

Chloride 9

Carbonate < 1

Bicarbonate 165

Total alkalinity 135

Total phosphorus 0.08

Total iron 0.03

 

[positiveContact]

bicarb is a little high in both.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Look up Bru'n Water and download the spreadsheet. Put all these numbers in and you'll be set to go. 

 

Looks like you could stand to add calcium Chloride to your brews, especially if they are malty.

 

Also, you probably need to add a little acid to your mash/sparge water to get your PH adjusted properly. (the total alkalinity and bicarb will leave residual alkalinity (RA) which buffers your water against changing the PH. Adding acid neutralizes the RA and lets your mash PH fall to where it needs to go to get good wort.

 

Not bad brewing water. Doesn't look like softening added any extra sodium. 

[Seven]

Thanks, guys! I'll download the spreadsheet and see what specifically needs to be added.

 

Is it unusual for softened water to not have added sodium? I was scratching my head after reading that. It's clear that the softened water is much lower in total hardness so I don't think that I grabbed a bad sample.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Thanks, guys! I'll download the spreadsheet and see what specifically needs to be added.

 

Is it unusual for softened water to not have added sodium? I was scratching my head after reading that. It's clear that the softened water is much lower in total hardness so I don't think that I grabbed a bad sample.

 

Not that much lower. Certainly not what I'd expect from a traditional softener. Is your softener a salt softener?

[MtnBrewer]

Thanks, guys! I'll download the spreadsheet and see what specifically needs to be added.

 

Is it unusual for softened water to not have added sodium? I was scratching my head after reading that. It's clear that the softened water is much lower in total hardness so I don't think that I grabbed a bad sample.

 

Some water softeners replace calcium with sodium. Yours doesn't which is good. That said, your water is already deficient in calcium and has a lot of bicarb. So you'll always need to add some form of calcium (either gypsum or CaCl₂ or both) and also probably some acid as Schwantz said.

[Seven]

It's a traditional softener with a salt tank. My skin is slipperier than snail snot while lathering.

[SchwanzBrewer]

It's a traditional softener with a salt tank. My skin is slipperier than snail snot while lathering.

 

Were you out of salt when you took the sample?

[MyaCullen]

It's a traditional softener with a salt tank. My skin is slipperier than snail snot while lathering.

strange that your sodium numbers are the same from both tests

[Seven]

I'll check the salt tank tonight...good thinking. As cheap as I am, I'd hate to have to run another test. Maybe I'll email Ward to see if this is abnormal.

[Brauer]

Thanks, guys! I'll download the spreadsheet and see what specifically needs to be added.

Is it unusual for softened water to not have added sodium? I was scratching my head after reading that. It's clear that the softened water is much lower in total hardness so I don't think that I grabbed a bad sample.

It doesn't look like you have much hardness to remove, which might be why it isn't adding much sodium. Are you sure you need the softener? It doesn't look like it does much.

[MyaCullen]

It doesn't look like you have much hardness to remove, which might be why it isn't adding much sodium. Are you sure you need the softener? It doesn't look like it does much.

the  sodium on both seems pretty high

[MtnBrewer]

It doesn't look like you have much hardness to remove, which might be why it isn't adding much sodium. Are you sure you need the softener? It doesn't look like it does much.

 

Agreed. I'd almost recommend not using the softener however it does remove a little bicarb.

[MyaCullen]

Agreed. I'd almost recommend not using the softener however it does remove a little bicarb.

maybe I'm just seeing things, but they both look softened, almost no calcium with high sodium

[MtnBrewer]

Valid point.

[Brauer]

Could be that the samples got mixed up...

[Seven]

I'm confused as well and asked Ward to rerun the samples. They got sodium of 75 and 76 on the two. I guess it's possible that the non softened sample was contaminated, like maybe I didn't clear all the water out of the pipes before sampling. But if they are both softened, why is the total hardness different?

I think I'm going to run a sample from an outside spigot that completely bypasses the system. Unfortunately, that water is very turbid and I'm not sure if that will affect the results.

[Brauer]

I'm confused as well and asked Ward to rerun the samples. They got sodium of 75 and 76 on the two. I guess it's possible that the non softened sample was contaminated, like maybe I didn't clear all the water out of the pipes before sampling. But if they are both softened, why is the total hardness different?

I think I'm going to run a sample from an outside spigot that completely bypasses the system. Unfortunately, that water is very turbid and I'm not sure if that will affect the results.

I don't know much about water softeners, since people don't use them around here, so I may be misunderstanding how they work. However, one explanation for your results, with the slight drop in hardness and calcium and increase in sodium, might be that you are softening your water but have so little calcium that it doesn't do much other than strip the last bit of calcium.

Not flushing the line enough, and getting a little pre water mixed with a lot of post water would explain it, too.

Do you have a water report from before they installed the softener, that would explain why they put it in? Or maybe one from a neighbor.

[Seven]

Thanks Brauer. I think I have a very basic water report from when the well was drilled...I just need to find it. We had the softener put in shortly after the house was built since our toilets and sinks were turning orange. We assumed it was from high iron but I now think that it's fine sediment.

[Brauer]

Iron is not good for brewing water, I'm told. I didn't know that a water softening system removed iron.