30 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

The different acids is in question too (at least with me). I have heard you need more phosphoric because it's weaker. I've also heard that phosphoric doesn't really lend a flavor component which is good. You need less lactic acid but I have heard that you shouldn't use more than 1ml per gallon of water used otherwise you'll go over the flavor threshold and start altering the flavor of the beer (for better or worse... some say that a little lactic acid SNAP is good). I filter first and then add CaCl/CaSO4 and acid before I start heating my strike water. I would agree that if you have a number in your water that is out-of-whack and/or very high compared to everything else, dilution would be the way to go. I have 138ppm of bicarb on my water which I thought was a lot until Martin told me that was a manageable number. Some people have 400+ ppm of bicarb so I envision lots of "water lugging" on brewday.

 

I think in something like a saison a little lactic snap is good.  in others things maybe not.

[Big Nake]

Some of this may come down to what some brewers call a "flabby" beer. I'm not sure if that name refers to a high mash pH, kettle pH, post-boil pH, etc. but I occasionally have a beer that seems a little flat in the flavor department and after determining what may have caused that issue I may decide to hit the finished keg with lactic acid (just a bit... ½ ml or something) and the flavor brightens up. I don't do much of this because I typically check the mash, sparge and kettle pH but I think it can make an okay beer a little snappier and more refreshing.

[Genesee Ted]

I'm at 125 bicarbonate. It's not horrible, but it's enough that I would like to find a solution to it for certain styles.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I'm at 125 bicarbonate. It's not horrible, but it's enough that I would like to find a solution to it for certain styles.

 

Sounds like phosphoric is the way to go.

[Genesee Ted]

That's what I used at my last place. It seemed to work just fine, but I'm trying to use a fine tooth comb on certain processes.

[SchwanzBrewer]

That's what I used at my last place. It seemed to work just fine, but I'm trying to use a fine tooth comb on certain processes.

 

Well, using a report and software to adjust a batch using minerals and acid seems like fine tuning to me. You already have a RO system so dilute the brewing water, I'm not sure how much further you want to fine tune without distilling your water first or running the whole amount of water through the RO filters. You basically have five options...

 

1. Chemical reaction through acidification
2. RO filtration
3. Distillation
4. Huge settling tank
5. Combination of of the four above

A chill tank is a huge vat of water that sits for a while and lets the minerals settle out of solution. Chilling it helps this process, but I'm not sure how much of the bicarb will settle out. I'm not sure how well it will work, but I know when you use things like PBW with hot water and then rinse with cool water you get deposition of calcium carbonate (CaCo3). I don't think that would work large scale though.

[neddles]

Palmer and Kaminski's Water was written more for the commercial brewer than the home brewer. It's not as fun as talking to us but I have to think it is going to cover a lot of what doob needs to know.

[Genesee Ted]

Well, using a report and software to adjust a batch using minerals and acid seems like fine tuning to me. You already have a RO system so dilute the brewing water, I'm not sure how much further you want to fine tune without distilling your water first or running the whole amount of water through the RO filters. You basically have five options...

• Chemical reaction through acidification
• RO filtration
• Distillation
• Huge settling tank
• Combination of of the four above

A chill tank is a huge vat of water that sits for a while and lets the minerals settle out of solution. Chilling it helps this process, but I'm not sure how much of the bicarb will settle out. I'm not sure how well it will work, but I know when you use things like PBW with hot water and then rinse with cool water you get deposition of calcium carbonate (CaCo3). I don't think that would work large scale though.

Yeah I have to do acid washes every few CIPs to take down the deposits. I'm looking into a cold CIP product for serving tanks and maybe saniclean for kegs. Our keg washer seems to be set up for a low temp cleaner sanitizer too, but that's a whole other thread

[SchwanzBrewer]

Switch to an acid cleaner. That's what I intend on using.
Now I use barkeepers friend

[mabrungard]

125 ppm alkalinity is not too high to preclude lactic acid usage. That level would not require adding lactic acid to the point of reaching its taste threshold. Having water with more than 200 ppm alkalinity might get you into the range where lactic acid could create taste effects. I used to brew with water that had nearly 150 ppm alkalinity and those beers did not display any overt lactic twang or flavor. 

[Genesee Ted]

Good stuff. Thanks!