34 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I have a helles sitting in primary on top of 2352 and I want to move that beer to a keg. I really wanted my next brewday to include the Brewtan B but it has not arrived yet. I suppose it could arrive today or tomorrow. I wanted to employ some of these low(er)-O2 processes and I think I still could but it would have been better with the Brewtan. Otherwise I may gently rack strike water to the MT, stir less, use a new connection I made for recircing the wort (with tubing), using my new SS chiller, not going through a strainer on the way to primary and then skipping secondary and going directly to a keg. I will make another helles since I have very little "gold lager" at the moment and the temps are getting a little nicer.

[Poptop]

If Brewtan never came around, do you think that you would notice much of a difference by employing your proposed 'new' techniques?  In my procedures, I can honestly identify with everything you wrote but I cannot wrap my head around it making a difference.  And one thing I will not budge on is NOT using a double mesh strainer either for MT to Kettle or Kettle to Primary.  Thoughts?  Jabs?  Guffaws? 

Edited by Steppedonapoptop, 20 May 2016 - 08:39 AM.

[Big Nake]

I hear you... I don't want to hang my hat on Brewtan without ever using it and having just heard of it. But I have always brewed by myself and I have never heard of controlling O2-pickup except for after fermentation. It could have been something that I have been missing where other brewers did did it by default. When you watch other brewers, you may pick things up that you didn't know about. Although it sounds like many of us don't really focus on it much. Also, remember that I make relatively tame styles of beer where oxidation may have a bigger impact. So I'm just thinking of my never-ending goal of always making the best beer and if O2-pickup is something that brewers should be focused on (in some part), then I would say that I have not been focused on it AT ALL. It's something I would like to try (low-O2 and the Brewtan) just to see what it does to my beer.

[Poptop]

I hear you back.  "Not focused at all" is my mainstay.  I am curious about the product.  I guess I just haven't seen any O2 impacts (that I'm aware of).

[Big Nake]

I'm brewing and the boil will be done in about 20 minutes. Some of the things I did today:

¤ I racked the strike water from the pot to the MT with high-temp tubing.
¤ I did not have the Brewtan B yet but I did get the SMB I ordered so I added about 1/3rd the amount that was called for by the low-O2 paper. .5 grams instead of 1.5. I figured that it couldn't hurt at that level and the worst that would happen would be NOTHING.
¤ I used a new recirc tool (tubing + hose adapter) to recirc.
¤ I racked the sparge water to the MT along with another .5g of SMB.
¤ I will be using my new SS chiller.
¤ I plan to rack to primary without using the strainer. I will still be adding pure O2 with my O2 stone.
¤ The helles I made last (with 2352) was in primary and I cleaned & sanitized a keg, purged it with CO2 and racked that beer directly to a keg, bypassing secondary. I plan to do that on all future batches unless I absolutely need to move a beer to a secondary. In that case, I did order the keg parts we talked about in another thread so I could purge the Better Bottle with CO2.

Cheers Peeps.

[Big Nake]

Everything went smoothly and then... I ran into two issues. One, I grabbed a small sample of the wort on the way to the primary and tasted it. What did I do wrong? The wort was so astringent, harsh and bitter. Like I already know that this beer will be undrinkable. Is this from the SMB? It's the only ingredient I used that I'm not familiar with. The first thing I did was connect my carbon block filter to see if something was up (although I tasted the water after I filtered it) and the filter is fine. Does this SMB have a flavor component? I have no idea what this flavor is but it's not good. Second issue is that my O2 stone broke (the valve... I can't get O2 out of the canister) so I couldn't oxygenate the wort. I can get another one but this flavor I'm getting is telling me that this experiment is already down the drain. Thoughts?

Could this be something with the first run of the SS chiller? Is it supposed to be boiled in water first or something? I had it soaking in Oxy and hot water and then Starsan solution just like I would have with my old one. Ugh.

... or: Could the high-temp tubing have been no-so-high temp and some plastic leeched out of it? This tubing looks like opaque rubber tubing and it's really flexible and bouncy. Is this the right stuff? I know I ordered high-temp tubing and the strike water was about 160-165° when it went into the MT.

[neddles]

Do you normally taste your wort (are familiar with the flavor) coming out of the kettle en route to primary? Forget acid, brewing salts? Did you check pH?

[Big Nake]

Additions were 3g of CaCl which I always add to my helles. pH in the mash was 5.22 and the sparge was 5.31. I don't taste the wort all the time but I wanted to here just to see if anything seemed different. Oh yes... It was. Something backfired and it was either SMB, the ss chiller or the tubing.

[neddles]

Additions were 3g of CaCl which I always add to my helles. pH in the mash was 5.22 and the sparge was 5.31. I don't taste the wort all the time but I wanted to here just to see if anything seemed different. Oh yes... It was. Something backfired and it was either SMB, the ss chiller or the tubing.

SMB is my guess.

 

I have trouble thinking that the tubing could have enough of an astringent substance in it to off-color 5+ gallons of cool wart en route to primary.

 

Same for the chiller. There would have had to have been a lot of something bad on that chiller.

Edited by neddles, 21 May 2016 - 02:23 PM.

[Big Nake]

I stuck my finger in the SMB and tasted it. It tastes like salt as I expected. I also used 33% of what was originally called for so I honestly don't think that it's the SMB unless I'm missing something. If the tubing was not rated for water that hot, it could break down couldn't it? This is a flavor very similar to what I have experienced when my carbon filter starts regurgitating everything that it has filtered out... super harsh, chemical-like, astringent, etc. I only took a small sample in my mouth, then chugged a 16-oz cup of water and I could still taste that nastiness. This is a doomed batch and I need to find out why. Maybe I'll heat some water, rack it into a cup with the tubing and taste the water to see if it's the tubing. I could add some SMB and do it again to see if I get the same thing.

[neddles]

Did u measure the SMB in the wrong units? Just trying to come up with something here. Your tubing sounds like the high temp stuff from the description you gave.

ETA: maybe it is a water filter issue.

Edited by neddles, 21 May 2016 - 04:07 PM.

[Big Nake]

SMB was measured in grams. A really small amount was added. I would call it a pinch. I'm baffled.

[Brauer]

It sounds like you used silicone tubing. That won't introduce any flavor. That's what we use in pharmaceutical manufacturing because it is nonreactive (and because it can be autoclaved).

If you only used a small pinch of metabisulfate, there won't be any flavor, as that is how much is used for chlorine removal. Wine makers use more and claim no flavor contribution.

[Big Nake]

I can't imagine what else it could be. My water filter is fine... I filtered some water right after the brewday and tasted it... it was great. I racked the strike water through the tubing twice (mash and sparge), added the SMB and used this chiller for the first time. Everything else was normal. My mash temp was 150 and my pH lined up nicely for the mash and sparge. I would actually say that despite doing some things differently, it was actually a very smooth brewday. But the taste of that wort... OMG, it was really sharp and unpleasant. The tubing appeared to hold up to the temp of the water with no trouble and 160° is not even that hot... it's not like it was boiling or something.

[Steve Urquell]

I use silicone tubing for my mash and its fine. Doesn't harden over time which makes me more confident thag it doesn't leach plasticisers into my wort. I recall having an issue with it after soaking in starsan then racking beer with it staining. After that I only clean it in oxyclean and only use it for hot wort racking

[Big Nake]

This is my first SS chiller... does anyone out there think that some type of "prep" or pre-treatment of the chiller is necessary? I dropped it into a bucket of hot Oxi solution and then into a bucket with a cool Starsan solution just as I would have with my old copper chiller.

[djinkc]

This is my first SS chiller... does anyone out there think that some type of "prep" or pre-treatment of the chiller is necessary? I dropped it into a bucket of hot Oxi solution and then into a bucket with a cool Starsan solution just as I would have with my old copper chiller.

 

I doubt that was the problem.  I've got nothing except don't be in a rush to dump this batch.

[Big Nake]

I can't think of anything else. Two pinches of SMB (one in the mash and one before racking the sparge water to the MT), the tubing and the chiller. The only other things were that I stirred the mash very slowly so I didn't introduce O2 and I stirred while chilling much slower and quieter than usual. I also used this new recirc tool (hose adapter with about an 8" length of tubing on it) to recirc with less O2.

I went downstairs and took a hit off the airlock... the primary is active and the aroma is very nice... which is expected. I'm trying to remember if I ate or drank anything right before I tasted the sample that maybe threw my tastebuds off but I don't think something this pronounced would be caused by that. It wasn't slightly weird, it was colossally horrifying. I won't dump it but at some point I'm going to have to sneak a sample again and see what's up. I don't really want to send it all the way to a keg if I *know* it's not good.

[neddles]

I've got nothing except don't be in a rush to dump this batch.

This. Ferment it out then taste it again. Post boil wort can be bitingly bitter, in fact it almost always is. Sounds like you were tasting other stuff too but I'd wait it out to see what you get.

[djinkc]

This. Ferment it out then taste it again. Post boil wort can be bitingly bitter, in fact it almost always is. Sounds like you were tasting other stuff too but I'd wait it out to see what you get.

 

I quit tasting post boil wort a long time ago.  It always tasted bad to me.