34 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I quit tasting post boil wort a long time ago.  It always tasted bad to me.

I totally hear this. I never thought it tasted good but in this case I wanted to see if there was any WOW factor. There was. It's sort of tangy, overly bitter, too sweet and everything just tastes wrong because it's not fermented yet. I will be patient and try it again at some point. The problem that I have is that if it's still funky, I'm not sure what caused it. I can experiment with a couple things like the chiller and tubing. I will also be using the Brewtan B when it arrives so if this is an issue with the SMB, that can be taken out of the equation easily.

[Brauer]

If it is astringent, then it is probably tannins, for whatever reason. A lot of these will drop out as part of the clarification process.

Tannins are removed mostly in the mash tun (the Obertieg), the boil (break), the fermentor (trub) and aging, in decreasing order of quantity. Changing your mash, boil, or chilling procedure might decrease how much is removed before the fermentor, but might not increase the amount in the final beer.

[Steve Urquell]

I guess I'm the odd man out on the raw wort as I love the taste. It tastes very bitter to me but not astringent. I get the tannic mouthfeel in second runnings but not in the mixed wort.

Either way I'd let it finish before judging it.

I use a ss chiller and just washed it in hot water and oxiclean before the first batch using it. No diff than anything else made of ss.

[MyaCullen]

I guess I'm the odd man out on the raw wort as I love the taste. It tastes very bitter to me but not astringent. I get the tannic mouthfeel in second runnings but not in the mixed wort.

Either way I'd let it finish before judging it.

I use a ss chiller and just washed it in hot water and oxiclean before the first batch using it. No diff than anything else made of ss.

agreed, I always taste my wort at every stage from grain to glass.

[neddles]

agreed, I always taste my wort at every stage from grain to glass.

This. I even taste my water and grains before I mash in.

[Steve Urquell]

This. I even taste my water and grains before I mash in.

I actually poured the hop debris from my last brewday into a gallon jar and refrigerated it. Decanted and drank the raw wort the next day~16oz. Delicious.

[MyaCullen]

I actually poured the hop debris from my last brewday into a gallon jar and refrigerated it. Decanted and drank the raw wort the next day~16oz. Delicious.

fart o matic

Edited by miccullen, 22 May 2016 - 06:27 PM.

[Big Nake]

Early this morning I conducted a little experiment. I took a pot and got about 2 gallons of straight tap water to about 165°. I racked some of it through the high-temp tubing into a glass measuring cup, let it cool a little bit and tasted it. It tasted like water. Nothing harsh. Then I brought the water in the pot to a boil and then dropped my new SS chiller in there, turned off the heat and let it sit for about 10 minutes. Then I took the chiller out, dipped into the water with the measuring cup, let it cool and tasted the water. It tasted fine. If I were to really stretch my imagination, I could almost detect a slight metallic flavor in the back of my mouth but nothing like what I tasted on Saturday. Then into that hot water in the pot I added a pinch of the sodium metabisulfite. I stirred that up and then grabbed a sample with the measuring cup again. Nothing. Tasted like water. Just to cover the filtered water thing again, I hooked up my filter, ran about half a gallon of water through it and then tasted the water right from the tubing coming out of the filter... tasted like good, clean water. I'm sure that someone here who paid WAY more attention in Chemistry will tell me that my experiment may not have been done properly but it seemed like a good way to corner the culprit. On one hand I'm concerned that it may be something else that I did and that I won't know. OTOH, I'm mildly relieved that I didn't find something because it could have been my tastebuds playing tricks on me on Saturday and the beer will actually be good. Although I am not very confident that will happen.

EDIT: After all of that I went downstairs and took a hit off the airlock again... it smells great. Then I took a bottling wand and put it into a spray bottle filled with Starsan solution and let it sit there for 5 minutes, opened up the primary and took a small sample and tasted it. Nasty. Harsh. Bitter. Like mouth-puckering, face-wrinkling astringency.

[Big Nake]

I just spoke with another brewer who had replaced some of the parts in his brewery with stainless (some valves and a chiller). He ended up having the exact same issue I did... nasty, metallic, harsh flavor in his wort. Turns out that stainless (I'm not sure if this is ALL stainless) needs to be cleaned, boiled, etc. before using it. I had never heard this but I am sharing it for whatever it's worth so no one else experiences this and loses a batch. I have very little stainless in my brewery. I have an old-school SS racking cane that I use and my kettle is SS as well and I don't remember having issues with those two things. If anyone else knows any additional information on this, please post. Cheers.

[djinkc]

I use my SS chiller as a post chiller in a bucket of recirculating ice water.  My initial prep for using it was a hot water flush and my usual recirculating StarSan for everything that moves beer post boil. No off flavors.

 

 Sometimes it happens and you never find out what went south.  Sometimes waiting does the trick.  Has anyone else tasted it?  You're expecting it to taste bad so it assuredly will.

[neddles]

Agree with DJ. Also, is there a chance you accidentally put something other than SMB in the batch? It's not the chiller or the hose. It might be the SMB if it isn't actually SMB you used.

[Big Nake]

It's the type of thing where new SS that is introduced *CAN* cause this... not always and I supposed it depends on how it's made. Remember I mentioned that I tested all three items (tubing, SMB, chiller) yesterday? The tubing and SMB passed the test but I detected a slight metallic flavor when I set the chiller into the boiling water. My guess is that when it sat in the boiling wort that first time... it was cleaned pretty well. I plan to clean it up a little better and possibly boil it again before I brew again. As I mentioned... my SS racking cane and kettle required no prep that I can remember so it may not be ALL stainless that will do this. Maybe I got a cheap chiller and the other brewer I spoke with also had cheap parts, not sure.

[neddles]

It's the type of thing where new SS that is introduced *CAN* cause this... not always and I supposed it depends on how it's made. Remember I mentioned that I tested all three items (tubing, SMB, chiller) yesterday? The tubing and SMB passed the test but I detected a slight metallic flavor when I set the chiller into the boiling water. 

Never heard of it, I'll have to remember that for the next piece of stainless I introduce to my brewery.

[HVB]

I have many SS parts in my brewery and some of those I know were "cheap" ss.  I only give them a soak in PBW to clean off any junk and then install them and I have have had no issues.  I have a SS chiller that I only use as a post chiller so only the inside sees beer but have never noticed any off flavor.

 

Skip all of this and make a 30-minute Helles and be happy

[Big Nake]

From the other brewer I spoke with, snipped from the AHA forum...

I am the guy that Ken spoke to.
I ruined a batch of helles, by not properly cleaning my new stainless components.
I had done a quick cleaning...But, I definitely didn't do as good a job, as I should have.
I theorize that a coating of machining oil/grease & who knows what other heavy metals & filth was on some of my new components & that boiling coupled with the pH of the wort cleaned the components, far better than the lackadaisical cleaning I had done.
Consequently, the resulting beer turned out slightly darker in color & contained an astringent, metallic quality that was absolutely awful.
In talking to Ken, I'm fairly confident that he discovered the same type of problem that I had on that batch.
I don't know for 100% certain, but it seems to be a safe bet.

I traced my problem to the new stainless components, by a process of elimination.
Sodium Metabisulfite was not used in my ruined batch, so I know that was not a contributing factor.
My water filtration system was used prior & following...Also showing no contribution.
I used hops from the same 1 lb bag, on previous & subsequent batches, so I know they were not my cause.
I used grain from the same bags prior & following...Not a factor.
In truth, I later brewed the exact same recipe & found nothing like the ruined batch.
The same kettles, chiller, pump, fittings, heating element, controller, spoon, mash paddle, mash tun, etc. were all used on subsequent batches, with no ill results.

If you look into some of the processes that are used in the manufacturing of stainless components, you'll see a LOT of things used that you don't want in your beer. Greases that contain heavy metals & toxins are fairly common. Cutting oils are used, frequently.

It's not unrealistic to think that a dunk in an Oxyclean or PBW solution might not do the job.

If you can think of a better explanation, you're welcome to continue trying.
But, I believe I found the culprit in my system & have since decided to do a deep cleaning on all new parts.