47 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

Sounds fine. May take longer than an active lager starter to get going. S-189 was slow to start on my 3 batches and was a slow fermenter.

Okay, thanks. Also... if I do it that way, I can pitch it into 50°-ish wort, correct? Or are they specifically saying to pitch into 68° or above wort no matter what?

[MyaCullen]

Okay, thanks. Also... if I do it that way, I can pitch it into 50°-ish wort, correct? Or are they specifically saying to pitch into 68° or above wort no matter what?

Yes, fermentation temperature, remember, in this technique you are making a gallon a lager and adding it to the other 4 gallons, treat it like beer.

[Big Nake]

Yes, fermentation temperature, remember, in this technique you are making a gallon a lager and adding it to the other 4 gallons, treat it like beer.

Not doing draflaussen. Just pitching dry yeast into lager wort. I swear it's like I never brewed before!

[Steve Urquell]

Okay, thanks. Also... if I do it that way, I can pitch it into 50°-ish wort, correct? Or are they specifically saying to pitch into 68° or above wort no matter what?

I always pitch at ferm temps. I never liked the lag of dry lager yeast. Part of the reason I started drauflassen. A single pack of S-189 may be very slow to start. All my batches have been even with a healthy harvest and drauflassen.

[Big Nake]

Okay, that's fine. I can accept a slow(er) start. But rehydrating in bottled water (in a flask) for 30 minutes or so and then pitching into well-oxygenated 50° wort will be fine, right? I also remember you guys saying to reuse the dry yeast just as you would any other yeast. True? If I like the character of the S-189, I'll make some other beers with it. Cheers and thanks.

[Steve Urquell]

Okay, that's fine. I can accept a slow(er) start. But rehydrating in bottled water (in a flask) for 30 minutes or so and then pitching into well-oxygenated 50° wort will be fine, right? I also remember you guys saying to reuse the dry yeast just as you would any other yeast. True? If I like the character of the S-189, I'll make some other beers with it. Cheers and thanks.

Solid plan. I like reusing dry yeast more than pitching it dry. 2-3 gens usually taste a little better--the lasagna effect.

[Big Nake]

Solid plan. I like reusing dry yeast more than pitching it dry. 2-3 gens usually taste a little better--the lasagna effect.

Mmm, planning a lasagna pilsner next! Thanks Chils... I appreciate the help.

[Big Nake]

Brewing this now. I increased my mash volume and decreased my sparge volume for this batch. I also "conditioned" the malt. I put some distilled water into a spray bottle and got the spray very fine and misty. I hit the grain and stirred it. I have no idea what impact it will have but I did it. The grist made a very pale wort as I expected. I plan to use around 1/3rd of a 16.9 ounce bottle of bottled water in my sanitized flask to rehydrate the S-189. Shake it every time I walk past it for 30 mins and then pitch into well-oxygenated wort that should be around 50°. I also used 25% distilled water in this batch. Cheers peeps.

[denny]

is carared really like C20?  I thought it had more of a malty backbone.  maybe I'm mistaken.

 

Only marginally.  I find it more fermentable.

[Brauer]

Brewing this now. I increased my mash volume and decreased my sparge volume for this batch. I also "conditioned" the malt. I put some distilled water into a spray bottle and got the spray very fine and misty. I hit the grain and stirred it. I have no idea what impact it will have but I did it.

Did you see a difference in the size of the husks? Conditioning gives me a dramatic and immediately noticeable increase in the volume of whole husks and the fluffiness of the grist, overall.

[Big Nake]

Did you see a difference in the size of the husks? Conditioning gives me a dramatic and immediately noticeable increase in the volume of whole husks and the fluffiness of the grist, overall.

It did seem to be that way. I wondered if I was supposed to leave the grain for a time after conditioning and before milling but I went ahead and milled it pretty much right away. The GBF guys say that conditioning the malt is one way to cut down on O2 pickup (not sure how) and I know you mentioned that it could aid in clarity as well. I had just thought about it at the last minute and figured I would try it and see if it made any difference.

[Brauer]

It did seem to be that way. I wondered if I was supposed to leave the grain for a time after conditioning and before milling but I went ahead and milled it pretty much right away. The GBF guys say that conditioning the malt is one way to cut down on O2 pickup (not sure how) and I know you mentioned that it could aid in clarity as well. I had just thought about it at the last minute and figured I would try it and see if it made any difference.

I'm not sure why they would think that would lower oxidation, since shredded husks have shown to increase polypheol extraction and polyphenols act as an oxygen sink. The good thing is that, since oxidized polyphenols increase chill haze, reducing both should improve colloidal stability (i.e., reduce chill haze).

I don't really wait, per se, but I do toss the grain a little with my fingers for a few seconds until I know all the water is absorbed and the grain isn't damp.

[Big Nake]

I'm not sure why they would think that would lower oxidation, since shredded husks have shown to increase polypheol extraction and polyphenols act as an oxygen sink. The good thing is that, since oxidized polyphenols increase chill haze, reducing both should improve colloidal stability (i.e., reduce chill haze).

I don't really wait, per se, but I do toss the grain a little with my fingers for a few seconds until I know all the water is absorbed and the grain isn't damp.

Right... sounds like what I did. I used a bucket so I wasn't really sure if I got ALL of the grain but I didn't want to oversaturate the grain. I did notice after reading Kai's site that reduced O2-pickup is indeed a benefit to conditioning the malt (according to Kai). Reduced chill haze sounds like a huge plus to me too.

[Brauer]

Right... sounds like what I did. I used a bucket so I wasn't really sure if I got ALL of the grain but I didn't want to oversaturate the grain. I did notice after reading Kai's site that reduced O2-pickup is indeed a benefit to conditioning the malt (according to Kai). Reduced chill haze sounds like a huge plus to me too.

Perhaps the oxygen absorption by polyphenols is exactly the oxygen pickup that is reduced. (There are other compounds in husks, too, of course, that may be reduced and oxidizable, like fatty acids). I think I was just imagining that the no oxygen crowd thought that there was an elusive flavor compound that was being damaged, which might then be protected by having some oxidizable polyphenols around. Of course, not knowing what that flavor is, it could be an oxidizable polyphenols that gets oxidized, since they are flavor-active compounds that contribute both positive and negative flavors to beer.

[Big Nake]

I kegged and carbed this beer earlier in the week and took it off the gas right before I went to the airport to leave for a few days. I just remembered that it was at a point where I could taste it so I'm sampling a glass of it now. Cloudy, for sure. The character of this yeast is very nice so thanks to Chils and anyone else who said they liked it. I'm getting a little crackery-bready thing that's quite nice. The balance is good and I'm pretty happy with the beer.

Now for the brewtan part of things (which I realize I'm leaving all over the site)... the beer is soft but because I hopped it well, it's crisp too. The brewtan is doing something that is allowing so much more malt and hop flavor come through. It's so unbelievably smooth and soft, it's unreal. If I could have tasted this beer before I brewed it (anyone know how to do that? ), I probably would have added a smidge of gypsum to the mash. As it is, I added none. I would like this beer to lager a bit but there may not be a chance because I have 2 sisters, a BIL and three 20-somethings coming over this weekend and staying for 4-5 days and my beer supply is going to take a BIG hit. This beer just may end up being served.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Try pulling off a growler and adding a bit of gypsum dissolved into water.

[Big Nake]

Thanks CWG. I considered that and I may do that. I tapped glass #2 and it was noticeably clearer (I gelled the cold keg before I carbed it) and just tapped glass #3 and it's really clear. Not sure if this is the yeast doing this, the brewtan, the gel (may all of them) but it really looks nice.

[Steve Urquell]

Good to hear it turned out well Ken. My S-189 hoppy pils that I said was harsh has smoothed out since it dropped clear and was very tasty tonight after mowing. S-189 leaves great malt flavor which I'm sure adds to the brewtan effect. My brewtan version of that beer is slowing down on fermentation and I'm curious to compareit to the non-BT version.

[Brauer]

Good to hear it turned out well Ken. My S-189 hoppy pils that I said was harsh has smoothed out since it dropped clear and was very tasty tonight after mowing. S-189 leaves great malt flavor which I'm sure adds to the brewtan effect. My brewtan version of that beer is slowing down on fermentation and I'm curious to compareit to the non-BT version.

I look forward to hearing. This will be the closest we've had to a side-by-side comparison, even with the recipe changes.

[Steve Urquell]

I look forward to hearing. This will be the closest we've had to a side-by-side comparison, even with the recipe changes.

Brauer, I went ahead and ordered more SS pellets from farmhouse. Figured I'd keep it as exact as possible. The only change will be the age of the hops for the dry hop.