61 replies to this topic

[SchwanzBrewer]

This is where the intersection of "style guideline" and "feck it" meet. This is not my style but I do know that a hefeweizen is low on hops.

 

I bet they'd play nice with each other. 

[Big Nake]

I bet they'd play nice with each other.

I agree and I'm all for rubbing my chin and just throwing something together that sounds nice to me. It depends on whether Shaggy wants to stay as close to a hefeweizen as possible or create an entirely new style... the hoppy, fruity hefe.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I agree and I'm all for rubbing my chin and just throwing something together that sounds nice to me. It depends on whether Shaggy wants to stay as close to a hefeweizen as possible or create an entirely new style... the hoppy, fruity hefe.

 

It will be juicy... 

[Big Nake]

It will be juicy... 

Just like #Florida.

[shaggaroo]

I'm trying to stay closer to traditional, but I'm thinking at the hop levels for weissbier, I'll maybe get some flavor undertones rather than overtones...

[MyaCullen]

I'm trying to stay closer to traditional, but I'm thinking at the hop levels for weissbier, I'll maybe get some flavor undertones rather than overtones...

brew it..!

 

as to those low alpha Nobles, yeah, the last several true Euro Nobles I have bought were really low, I got some Saaz @ 1.9% WTAF?

[shaggaroo]

brew it..!
 
as to those low alpha Nobles, yeah, the last several true Euro Nobles I have bought were really low, I got some Saaz @ 1.9% WTAF?

wtaf is right... I wonder why they're so low...

[MyaCullen]

wtaf is right... I wonder why they're so low...

Drought I'd suspect

[Rattfink]

For bittering to IBUs, (Or bittering in general) I just use what's economical which usually means magnum. The flavor is irrelevant.

 

As far as non traditional or modern hops in traditional styles...remember the old brew masters who pioneered our classic styles used the hops they used because that is what was available. Not because they judged other varieties to be inferior or inappropriate. So if you want to nail a classic Pils, you probably need Tett, Hallertau, or Spalt etc. But if you used a modern citrusy hop like Cascade, Amarillo or Mandarina, it would still be great if a bit anachronistic. 

[Lamppa]

At 15 IBU's, you are really just looking for the antiseptic properties. The yeast is going to shine. I have a Hefeweisen in the fermenter that is ready to keg.

Depends. I can really taste 15 ibu, but when I go as low as 10, it's more malt forward. Grist and water are pieces that can't be left out.

[cavman]

It will be juicy... 

  

Just like #Florida.

In Florida it is common to add juice to weisse beers whether sour or not, especially in Miami check the it places like MIA Brewing or J Wakefield.

[shaggaroo]

In Florida it is common to add juice to weisse beers whether sour or not, especially in Miami check the it places like MIA Brewing or J Wakefield.

Kind of like Weissbier and lemon soda to make a Russ' or weissbier and coke, etc

[cavman]

Kind of like Weissbier and lemon soda to make a Russ' or weissbier and coke, etc

No they add tropical juices during fermentation.

[MyaCullen]

No they add tropical juices during fermentation.

ahh, I had a Blood Orange witbier made like that once, twas interesting

[denny]

For bittering to IBUs, (Or bittering in general) I just use what's economical which usually means magnum. The flavor is irrelevant.

 

 

I've found that you can detect the flavor from bittering hops, depending on the variety.  There's also the quality of the bitterness to consider...Magnum has a very "soft" bitterness that IMO is fine for some styles, but for things like IPA I prefer a hop like Chinook that has more "bite".

[ZYMFUL]

I'm a big fan of fruity hops in strange places. Tradition is boring after so long. These low IBU beers I'll just add some late flavor hops and no bittering. Gets the flavor and IBUs where I want being high AA usually. I did a Hefe years back with some Amarillo and actually some fresh mango. It was pretty damn good. On deck I'm going to try a Hefe with Citra and Motueka, with some Sacch-Brett-Like Trois and maybe Claussenii for a little pineapple-like funk. That banana and tropical flavors from hops and yeasts sounds delicious to me. I am curious how the brett is going to play with the Hefe yeast esters/phenols. Hoping to get all those flavors, and hoping the brett doesn't totally change them to something else. My Witbiers I usually add some citrusy late hops to as well. As far as Hefe yeast, I'm picky, but very much prefer WLP300/3068.

Edited by ZYMFUL, 19 June 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[Rattfink]

I've found that you can detect the flavor from bittering hops, depending on the variety.  There's also the quality of the bitterness to consider...Magnum has a very "soft" bitterness that IMO is fine for some styles, but for things like IPA I prefer a hop like Chinook that has more "bite".

I mean no offense but I would love to see people do the Pepsi challenge with otherwise identical IPAs that have different bittering hops. 

If beer drinkers with even more sophisticated than average palates could pick out the differences consistently I would be shocked. 

[Steve Urquell]

I mean no offense but I would love to see people do the Pepsi challenge with otherwise identical IPAs that have different bittering hops. 
If beer drinkers with even more sophisticated than average palates could pick out the differences consistently I would be shocked.

Ratt, I can't tell a flavor difference from 60min or FWH w/60min boils but I can tell a bitterness difference even with the same IBUs. I use CTZ for bittering everything, ran out and used Amarillo in a batch, Simcoe in another. Recipes that I had brewed with CTZ bittering multi-X. The simcoe/amarillo batches were too soft, didn't have the biterness punch I was used to. What I was surprised about was how much I missed that bitterness. Those beers lingered for too long.

BTW, Zymful above is Common from HBC.

[Rattfink]

Ratt, I can't tell a flavor difference from 60min or FWH w/60min boils but I can tell a bitterness difference even with the same IBUs. I use CTZ for bittering everything, ran out and used Amarillo in a batch, Simcoe in another. Recipes that I had brewed with CTZ bittering multi-X. The simcoe/amarillo batches were too soft, didn't have the biterness punch I was used to. What I was surprised about was how much I missed that bitterness. Those beers lingered for too long.

BTW, Zymful above is Common from HBC.

Like I said....I want to see the Pepsi challenge. Knowing there was a difference may have colored your perception, even if you didn't expect a difference. 

Anecdotes simply aren't going to convince me on this one as my own tell me there is little to no perceptible difference when using noble hops, modern high alpha types, or anything in between for pure bittering, even in recipes that use no late hops to further obscure and confuse the matter. 

 

And nice to have Common/ Zymful aboard!

[Steve Urquell]

Like I said....I want to see the Pepsi challenge. Knowing there was a difference may have colored your perception, even if you didn't expect a difference. 
Anecdotes simply aren't going to convince me on this one as my own tell me there is little to no perceptible difference when using noble hops, modern high alpha types, or anything in between for pure bittering, even in recipes that use no late hops to further obscure and confuse the matter. 
 
And nice to have Common/ Zymful aboard!

I didn't expect the bitterness to be different when choosing the other hops. I thought IBUs is IBUs. When the amarillo wasn't bitter enough I thought maybe they were too old and had lost potency. That's why I went to the fresher Simcoe. Had I expected a difference I could see confirmation bias being a factor but that wasn't the case.

Looking at an alpha acid/oil chart helped me understand more about how certain hops behave differently WRT mouthfeel, resin, and bitterness. Like how Spalt Select will give you PMF while other nobles won't. Check one out.