517 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

If it works for others it is really gonna make me wonder if I'm brewing such bad beer that it cannot be saved lol.

No, I think it's the opposite... your process is sound so there was nowhere for BT to make a mark on your beer. I think that's absolutely true. For me, it's simple... I do not taste my bees while they're in production. The very first taste of my beer is either after it's carbed and it's in my on-deck fridge or when it first goes to the draft fridge. I sample it. I might weigh out that there is still yeast in suspension or take into consideration the beer's age especially if it's young. If it tastes good, I'm good. If I try it the next day and the day after that and it's good... it's good. If I detect something that seems off (like this thing that you and I have shared stories about where a beer tastes like dirt or hops seem to have disappeared and the beer has no punch to it) and it's off more than one time that I drink it... then something is wrong with it. I have been mostly WOWED by the beers I've made since using brewtan. That doesn't mean it's the brewtan but it doesn't mean that it's not either.

Btw... did you ever do the LODO process as outlined by the GBF? I took some steps in that direction but could never really duplicate all of the steps as they laid them out because my system is not sophisticated enough and they made it sound like "one wrong move and it won't work!" so I just didn't go there. But I don't dismiss their claim because I never tried it myself and I never tasted anyone's beer who supposedly tried it. Maybe there *is* something to their claims but I won't know, personally.

[Steve Urquell]

I never did LODO. Even if it was the holy grail to achieving "IT" the process is too complicated and time consuming to me. I'm not willing to expend that much work on homebrew.

Man I use tasting during primary to determine when to take the next step. Cant imagine going to keg without knowing the beer is tasting like it is intended to.

[HVB]

I look forward to the results. I did 2 lagers and neither showed any difference tasted blindly.

I really want people to avoid doing with BT what the German brewing forum did with LODO. My eyes were opened when doing side by sides blindly.

My side by side showed a vast difference. That was an American wheat and I plan to try it again soon with a light lager.

[Steve Urquell]

My side by side showed a vast difference. That was an American wheat and I plan to try it again soon with a light lager.

Thats awesome and a good data point. Im glad it worked for you. I hope others do the side by side and post results.

[Big Nake]

Man I use tasting during primary to determine when to take the next step. Cant imagine going to keg without knowing the beer is tasting like it is intended to.

The one thing that I focus on in that regard is just making sure that the beer is "done" and that a good majority of the yeast has had the chance to settle. I do not want diacetyl in a lager and I don't want underfermented beer in any case. I'm rarely in a hurry so this is never really a problem. I have a lager and an ale in primaries sitting on the basement floor right now. I did not brew this weekend and probably won't until next weekend so I gave them both a swirl with the goal being fully-fermented beer and now they have a week to settle before they go to a keg. I fully trust the yeast to bring the gravity where it belongs and I hate mucking around inside of a primary anyway.

[Steve Urquell]

The one thing that I focus on in that regard is just making sure that the beer is "done" and that a good majority of the yeast has had the chance to settle. I do not want diacetyl in a lager and I don't want underfermented beer in any case. I'm rarely in a hurry so this is never really a problem. I have a lager and an ale in primaries sitting on the basement floor right now. I did not brew this weekend and probably won't until next weekend so I gave them both a swirl with the goal being fully-fermented beer and now they have a week to settle before they go to a keg. I fully trust the yeast to bring the gravity where it belongs and I hate mucking around inside of a primary anyway.

Yeah, sometimes I forget that can be a pain for most folks. All my primaries have spigots on them and I use S-airlocks. Easy as turning the valve for me to collect a sample. Frequent tasting lets me be confident that my lager is ready to go to the next step. Let's me drink lagers 3 weeks from brewday--or not if they need more time based on tasting.

Edited by Steve Urquell, 29 January 2017 - 07:42 PM.

[Stains_not_here_man]

I never did LODO. Even if it was the holy grail to achieving "IT" the process is too complicated and time consuming to me. I'm not willing to expend that much work on homebrew.

Man I use tasting during primary to determine when to take the next step. Cant imagine going to keg without knowing the beer is tasting like it is intended to.

I'm with Ken here. I absolutely hate the taste of warm, uncarbonated beer. If I judged my beer by how it tasted in primary I would throw every batch out.

[Big Nake]

I'm with Ken here. I absolutely hate the taste of warm, uncarbonated beer. If I judged my beer by how it tasted in primary I would throw every batch out.

I have always said that I'm a terrible judge of warm, flat beer but that's not entirely true. If I tasted diacetyl or something else I could condition out, I would know and I could pivot based on that. But the truth is that for years I did things like take OG and FG readings, check efficiency, etc. and I eventually concluded that I didn't need to worry about any of that. My OG comes in right around where the software says it will (and honestly... if the software says I'll make a beer starting at 1.055 and it's actually 1.052, I couldn't care less) and my FGs are always right down where I expect them so there is a touch of RDWHAHB in my brewing and leaving beer in primary for 3-4 weeks at a time is never really an issue unless you're in a hurry.

[Steve Urquell]

I'm not in a hurry. Just my process. I once had a beer that I let sit for weeks after fermentation at 65F. Kegged it and found it had acetaldehyde. Did a bunch of reading and determined that I needed a process change and to be doing more tasting before kegging. It has worked since so it's SOP for me.

 

I don't like to leave beer sitting around at room temp that can be kegged, carbing, and lagering. Tasting is the only way I can be certain that it is ready for that.

Edited by Steve Urquell, 29 January 2017 - 08:57 PM.

[Big Nake]

I'm not in a hurry. Just my process. I once had a beer that I let sit for weeks after fermentation at 65F. Kegged it and found it had acetaldehyde. Did a bunch of reading and determined that I needed a process change and to be doing more tasting before kegging. It has worked since so it's SOP for me.
 
I don't like to leave beer sitting around at room temp that can be kegged, carbing, and lagering. Tasting is the only way I can be certain that it is ready for that.

That's one reason this is fun... so many ways to make it, send it through the process, package, etc. I have only brewed with other people a handful of times. But every time I do I learn something. It might be a small thing where you say, "Oh, never thought of doing that, great idea!" or whatever. Bottom line is that when I hand someone a bottle or growler or I tap a beer for them and hand them that glass, I expect that beer to be as good as anything they have had and I mean that in every possible way. I don't serve beer that I think is subpar. So we all take a different road but expect to meet at the same place... great beer. It's been getting to the point where the usual suspects (family, friends, neighbors) say things like, "I went to that new brewpub but the beer is not as good as yours" or "Ken's beer has ruined everything else for me" and this is stuff that my SIL or FIL might say so it goes in one ear and out the other but it's always good to hear.

[Steve Urquell]

That's one reason this is fun... so many ways to make it, send it through the process, package, etc. I have only brewed with other people a handful of times. But every time I do I learn something. It might be a small thing where you say, "Oh, never thought of doing that, great idea!" or whatever. Bottom line is that when I hand someone a bottle or growler or I tap a beer for them and hand them that glass, I expect that beer to be as good as anything they have had and I mean that in every possible way. I don't serve beer that I think is subpar. So we all take a different road but expect to meet at the same place... great beer.

+1. I expect my beer to be as good as a commercial example of the style and am loath to serve it if it isn't. I beat on my beer mercilessly to make sure it is up to snuff. It isn't always and that is what keeps me brewing and trying to improve.

[denny]

I never did LODO. Even if it was the holy grail to achieving "IT" the process is too complicated and time consuming to me. I'm not willing to expend that much work on homebrew.

Man I use tasting during primary to determine when to take the next step. Cant imagine going to keg without knowing the beer is tasting like it is intended to.

 

My feelings exactly.

[cavman]

I wouldn't compare LODO to BT, I don't hear people dumping all non BT beer yet and can't drink commercial beer anymore. It also may make a slight difference on some systems based on other factors.

[neddles]

I wouldn't compare LODO to BT, I don't hear people dumping all non BT beer yet and can't drink commercial beer anymore. It also may make a slight difference on some systems based on other factors.

Did you ever try the brewtan? IIRC you were going to pass some Brauer's way or vise versa?

[Big Nake]

Today I used the last of the first 50g pack of brewtan that I bought. Curious to know how long that pack lasted, I checked my notes and see that the first batch where I used brewtan was a Munich Helles that I made on June 10, 2016. So the pack lasted me about 9 months. It looks like I'm set for the rest of this year but does anyone have a line (Denny?) on how to replenish the stock using a domestic source?

[positiveContact]

I wouldn't compare LODO to BT, I don't hear people dumping all non BT beer yet and can't drink commercial beer anymore. It also may make a slight difference on some systems based on other factors.

 

wait, what?

[Steve Urquell]

Ken, PM me your address and I'll send you what I have. I have no intention to continue using it as it has no positive affect on my beer.

[Darterboy]

Just get your local brewery to order you some. I got a pound of the stuff for $20.

[Big Nake]

Just get your local brewery to order you some. I got a pound of the stuff for $20.

I do know the brewer at my closest brewery. I don't know if he would be able to help but that's not a bad idea. Chils is gonna hook me up for now but at some point I would need a more stable supply and hopefully it will either be in most supply houses and if not... not a bad idea. Thanks & cheers.

[denny]

I'm still hoping that I can convince a wholesaler to get it out to homebrew shops.  We're tentatively planning on having our experimental results on the show on 4/12.