30 replies to this topic

[denny]

Attention, attention... this episode is brought to you by an accidentally awesome quirk of fate. After we announced our experiment (Saison Yeast - Airlock vs. Open Ferment - Does it prevent "stall") way back when, our itinerant "Science" co-host Marshall Schott let us know that his site, Brulosophy.com was running the same experiment!

We waited and coordinated our experimental results release. Marshall released his results earlier this week and now we get together and discuss our results plus his. There are a total of five experimental runs here and what do they say? Well, put yer earbuds in and listen! (And if you think this is the last time we're doing this.. ha, you don't know how all this works! Maybe we'll do it on purpose next time!)

From our time in the Casa Verde labs, we move back to Baltimore and spend some time with the Free State Homebrew Club Guild at HomeBrewCon's "Craft Beer Kickoff" Party. We had a heck of a time with the various club members and we hope you learn a thing or two! (Plus, hey - why do you homebrew?) So come along with as we talk to a raft of clubs and a beer "celeb" or two!

httpss://www.experimentalbrew.com/sites/default/files/ExperimentalBrewing_Episode_018_Saison_Under_Pressure.mp3

[SchwanzBrewer]

Beer beer beer beeeeeeeeeeer, beer beer beer beeeeeeeeeer.

 

I love that song and now it's stuck in my head.

[denny]

Beer beer beer beeeeeeeeeeer, beer beer beer beeeeeeeeeer.

 

I love that song and now it's stuck in my head.

 

You are a sick, sick man....

[SchwanzBrewer]

I've got a fever. And the only cure is more beer!

[denny]

I've got a fever. And the only cure is more beer!

 

MOAR UKE!

[SchwanzBrewer]

I think it's interesting that either the pressure or the % dissolved CO2 is playing a role in stalling the beer with the dupont strain. I've avoided saison like the plague because I don't like 3711 much (my beers seemed way too fruity). I might try a saison now, but using a conical I think I might run into the pressure problem due to the height of the wort (my conicals are fairly tall for their volume) even if I don't use a blow off bucket and just cap the blowoff with a paper towel. So I'm still a bit apprehensive about brewing saison.

[denny]

I think it's interesting that either the pressure or the % dissolved CO2 is playing a role in stalling the beer with the dupont strain. I've avoided saison like the plague because I don't like 3711 much (my beers seemed way too fruity). I might try a saison now, but using a conical I think I might run into the pressure problem due to the height of the wort (my conicals are fairly tall for their volume) even if I don't use a blow off bucket and just cap the blowoff with a paper towel. So I'm still a bit apprehensive about brewing saison.

 

Maybe you should pick up a bucket for them.

[denny]

I think that Drew, Marshall and I are leaning toward Jeremiah's hypothesis that it's CO2 toxicity rather than the pressure that does it.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I think that Drew, Marshall and I are leaning toward Jeremiah's hypothesis that it's CO2 toxicity rather than the pressure that does it.

Interesting. It might be worth trying to hit it with a wine degasser.

I really enjoyed the episode!

[SchwanzBrewer]

Maybe you should pick up a bucket for them.

 

1bbl, that's a big bucket...

[denny]

Interesting. It might be worth trying to hit it with a wine degasser.

I really enjoyed the episode!

 

Thanks!  I wonder if you'd have to worry about oxidizing the beer if you did that?  Maybe not.....but still, open fermentation sounds a lot easier!

[MyaCullen]

1bbl, that's a big bucket...

35 gallon food grade heavy duty trash can

[SchwanzBrewer]

35 gallon food grade heavy duty trash can

 

Need at least 40 and it would only make sense if it was wide enough to reduce the hydrostatic pressure. Then there's the logistics of controlling he fermentation temperature.

 

I'll give it a shot one of these days, but I'm going to talk to some local pros first.

[neddles]

Need at least 40 and it would only make sense if it was wide enough to reduce the hydrostatic pressure. Then there's the logistics of controlling he fermentation temperature.

 

I'll give it a shot one of these days, but I'm going to talk to some local pros first.

Or just use 3726. It's a terrific yeast.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Thanks!  I wonder if you'd have to worry about oxidizing the beer if you did that?  Maybe not.....but still, open fermentation sounds a lot easier!

 

Beachwood age it... only sorta kidding. Adding some sort of high surface area piece of equipment with interstitial areas would cause the beer to degas like it does with the IPA glasses.

[MtnBrewer]

Beachwood age it... only sorta kidding. Adding some sort of high surface area piece of equipment with interstitial areas would cause the beer to degas like it does with the IPA glasses.

 

Activated charcoal?

[Brauer]

Bubbling nitrogen through a solution will knock other gasses out. It's one way we degas solutions in the lab. Pulling a slight vacuum might be another way to knock enough out to help, too.

I've also heard the theory that the reason that swirling a fermentor to 'rouse the yeast' sometimes works is not because it moves the yeast around, but because it knocks CO2 out.

[neddles]

Bubbling nitrogen through a solution will knock other gasses out. It's one way we degas solutions in the lab. Pulling a slight vacuum might be another way to knock enough out to help, too.

I've also heard the theory that the reason that swirling a fermentor to 'rouse the yeast' sometimes works is not because it moves the yeast around, but because it knocks CO2 out.

Those would be interesting to test. Warmer temps will bring CO2 out as well but for whatever reason it's not the cure for the stall in that yeast. Maybe the increased fermentation offsets it? Seems like it would start fermenting again pretty quickly if that were the case.

[Brauer]

Those would be interesting to test. Warmer temps will bring CO2 out as well but for whatever reason it's not the cure for the stall in that yeast. Maybe the increased fermentation offsets it? Seems like it would start fermenting again pretty quickly if that were the case.

One potential advantage of the physical methods is that they separate the CO2 from the liquid, while warming may result in just causing the CO2 to be supersaturated. Warming plus agitation can be a particularly effective combination.

One curious fact I meant to mention is that bubbling nitrogen to degas a solution is called 'sparging'.

[shaggaroo]

Best way to sparge is with helium because it's not as compressible as nitrogen, but that's just the chromatographer in me talking