19 replies to this topic

[shaggaroo]

Anybody who uses 34/70 ever feel the need? If it is indeed the dry version of 2124, any 2124 users feel the need?

[positiveContact]

Anybody who uses 34/70 ever feel the need? If it is indeed the dry version of 2124, any 2124 users feel the need?

 

wyeast claims you should with 2124.  I have been doing accelerated maturation ferm temp profiles which should take care of it anyway I think.  have you ever tried one?

Edited by Evil_Morty, 19 July 2016 - 03:56 AM.

[HVB]

wyeast claims you should with 2124.  I have been doing accelerated maturation ferm temp profiles which should take care of it anyway I think.  have you ever tried one?

I also did the accelerated schedule when I last used 34/70 and had no issues. 

[denny]

Whether or not to do a d rest really has little to nothg to do woth the yeast and almost everything to do with how you use it. AFAIAC, the only way to decide is to tatse the beer.

[positiveContact]

Whether or not to do a d rest really has little to nothg to do woth the yeast and almost everything to do with how you use it. AFAIAC, the only way to decide is to tatse the beer.

 

true enough.  I worry though as I'm not sure I could taste it reliably with other "young beer" flavors that might be going on in a beer that hasn't really started to clear yet.

[MtnBrewer]

Yep. As far as I know, a d-rest does no harm so I do them even though the vast majority of the time they aren't called for. Helps knock a point or two off the FG also.

[shaggaroo]

I did taste a sample and my palate detects no diacetyl. What is the accelerated schedule? I had my wort at 52 ºF, pitched two packs of 34/70, and it's been held steady at about 53 ºF for 8 days now.

[positiveContact]

I did taste a sample and my palate detects no diacetyl. What is the accelerated schedule? I had my wort at 52 ºF, pitched two packs of 34/70, and it's been held steady at about 53 ºF for 8 days now.

 

I typically hold it around 50F for a few days and then start ramping the temp up every day until I'm in the mid 60s and fermentation is complete.  typically fermented out in about 5-6 days I think.  There are variations on the theme but in generally you let the beer ferment cool for 50% or so of the way down and then start warming things up.

 

https://brulosophy.c...s/lager-method/

 

here is a thread I started on it a while back: https://www.brews-br...dule-look-like/

Edited by Evil_Morty, 19 July 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[denny]

true enough.  I worry though as I'm not sure I could taste it reliably with other "young beer" flavors that might be going on in a beer that hasn't really started to clear yet.

 

Believe me, if you have it, you'll taste it!

[MtnBrewer]

Some people just can't taste it. I'm not that sensitive to it but I can pick it up if it's fairly severe. Oddly enough, I see it more often in commercial beers than in home brews. Pro brewers are sometimes under pressure to get beers out of the fermenter and into kegs where it can make some money. Sometimes they cut it a little too close.

[positiveContact]

Believe me, if you have it, you'll taste it!

 

the only place I've ever tasted it is shipyard monkeyfist IPA.

[denny]

Here's a summary of Mike McDole's method from "Homebrew All Stars"....this method pretty much eliminates the need for a d rest since you start raising the temp during fermentation.

 

THE TASTY FAST LAGER SCHEDULE IN LIST FORMAT
Calculate your total gravity drop based on original gravity
and yeast strain choice (75 to 80 percent is usual).
1. Chill the wort to 55°F and pitch the yeast
2. When the ferment is 50 percent complete, raise temperature to 58°F.

3. When the ferment is 75 percent complete, raise to 62°F.
4. When the ferment is 90 percent, complete, raise to 66°F and hold until at terminal gravity.
If you look around, you’ll see some alternative fast lager ideas floating around there. Another of our All-Stars (and star of many of our photos), Marshall Schott (page 94) has a hybrid method that incorporates a traditional lager cold crash. Instead of Mike’s gravitybased checkpoints, Marshall waits for the beer to hit 50 percent attenuation and then ramps the temperature a steady five degrees every twelve hours until he reaches 65 to 68°F. Once the beer is stable and without diacetyl (butter) or acetaldehyde (green apple), Marshall chills the beer 5 to 8 degrees every twelve hours until it reaches 32°F. Once there, he lets it hang for two to three days to clarify.

the only place I've ever tasted it is shipyard monkeyfist IPA.

 

IIRC, they use Ringwood yeast, so it doesn't surprise me

Edited by denny, 19 July 2016 - 08:33 AM.

[HVB]

the only place I've ever tasted it is shipyard monkeyfist IPA.

LOL I thought all their beers have it.

[MtnBrewer]

That's good info Denny. I wouldn't say he's not doing a d-rest but rather smoothly easing into it instead of a big jump from ~50° up to mid-60's.

[positiveContact]

LOL I thought all their beers have it.

 

as of late that's the only beer I've had from them.  the other probably do too if they use the same yeast and similar fermentation schedule.

[denny]

That's good info Denny. I wouldn't say he's not doing a d-rest but rather smoothly easing into it instead of a big jump from ~50° up to mid-60's.

 

A d rest is nothing more than making the yeast more active.  The usual way to do that is either through a longer fermentation or raising the temp to "activate" the yeast.  I used to do very long, cold fermentations.  I didn't need a d rest for those because they went on long enough for the yeast to consume the d.  Now, I do it by raising the temp during the fermentation.  Same basic idea, same result.   Many people (not saying you) don't understand what the purpose of a d rest is.  They think it's the temp that does it when it's the yeast.

 

BTW, when Mike says calculate your total expected gravity drop. you subtract your expected FG from your OG.  Say 1.045-.1005=40.  So, when he talks about % of attenuation, he's talking about % of that 40 points.

Edited by denny, 19 July 2016 - 09:46 AM.

[shaggaroo]

So if I bring it out of my thermostated chest freezer and let it warm a couple of days then cold crash I should be good? And I am very sensitive to diacetyl and generally detect it more in commercial brews than not. As long as we're calling out breweries, seems everything from Middle Ages is chock full of diacetyl.

And thinking about it, I'm going out of town on Friday through next Wednesday so I may as well just leave it in primary for now at 53 °F.

Edited by shaggaroo, 19 July 2016 - 09:54 AM.

[positiveContact]

So if I bring it out of my thermostated chest freezer and let it warm a couple of days then cold crash I should be good? And I am very sensitive to diacetyl and generally detect it more in commercial brews than not. As long as we're calling out breweries, seems everything from Middle Ages is chock full of diacetyl.

And thinking about it, I'm going out of town on Friday through next Wednesday so I may as well just leave it in primary for now at 53 °F.

 

as long as the yeasties are still active that will probably take care of it.  if you are super sensitive to it though a taste test would probably tell you how necessary it is.  I worry that personally I'm not quite sensitive enough.

[MtnBrewer]

A d rest is nothing more than making the yeast more active.  The usual way to do that is either through a longer fermentation or raising the temp to "activate" the yeast.  I used to do very long, cold fermentations.  I didn't need a d rest for those because they went on long enough for the yeast to consume the d.  Now, I do it by raising the temp during the fermentation.  Same basic idea, same result.   Many people (not saying you) don't understand what the purpose of a d rest is.  They think it's the temp that does it when it's the yeast.

 
Exactly. I was puzzled when I first saw the use of a d-rest on an ale. But yeah, it really just means giving it time for the yeast to do their thing. How much time that takes depends on the temperature.

consume the d

I admit I giggled a little.

[Brauer]

LOL I thought all their beers have it.

Every one I have tasted had it.

One potential advantage to a diacetyl rest, or the accelerated, Narziss-style lager fermentation, is the conversion of acetolactate to diacetyl while the yeast are still active. Otherwise, there is the potential for a beer to taste clean at packaging, but develop diacetyl in the container, with little yeast activity to remove it.