67 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I had a blonde ale in a keg and when I sampled it, it was one of those where the hops just seemed to be missing. Magnum to bitter and then an ounce of Spalt and an dounce of Santiam in the last 10 minutes. No late-hop anything. So I took the keg out of the fridge and let it get to room temp and then added two ounces of Saphir for 7 days, took the hop bag out and put it back into the fridge. Sampled it yesterday after it sat for about a week and the hop character from the Saphir is not great. It's sort of vegetal and it's just not right. These hops were in a vacuum-sealed, O2-purged foil pouch from Farmhouse. I know that adding late boil hops is not the same as dry hopping but I think I'll just stick with adding a bunch of late hops and screw the dry-hopping from now on. I don't know if these Saphir hops would have a different character if they had been thrown into the whirlpool or what but this Russian roulette game I'm playing with dry hop character is not for me.

[positiveContact]

how warm is room temp in the summer?  maybe a cooler dry hop would have been better?  7 oz of hops at warm temps is more than most people do it I think.

[Bklmt2000]

Ken, I've gotten away from dry-hopping for the most part, and I think my beers are better for it.

 

I've instead gone to larger late additions/hop-stands, which has worked out pretty well.

[HVB]

Not sure I could get away with not dryhopping.  IME you will not get the same character from late hops and your APAs ( I know you are not a big IPA guy) will be lacking.  But with that said, as long as you are happy with the beers that is all that matters.  I personally would chalk it up to issues with the hops and not give up. 

 

Also,  like Morty said temp could play a role and also time.  I try not to go over 5 days for my tastes.  But I am also dry hopping at a rate MUCH higher than you.  Closer to 1.5oz/g.

[Big Nake]

Well, the temp was probably around 65-70° since it was sitting on the basement floor and our AC was on... pretty cool down there. I also used these specific hops because 1) I thought they would work well with the hops I used in the boil and 2) they were in an unopened bag (described above) where I thought I would get the best results. I'm not a big Saphir user but I expected better results.

Ken, I've gotten away from dry-hopping for the most part, and I think my beers are better for it.
I've instead gone to larger late additions/hop-stands, which has worked out pretty well.

I'm starting to consider this. The APAs and Blonde Ales where I've added 4-5 ounces of hops in the last 15 minutes are coming out nicely for my tastes. I have just had too many dry-hop problems.

Not sure I could get away with not dryhopping.  IME you will not get the same character from late hops and your APAs ( I know you are not a big IPA guy) will be lacking.  But with that said, as long as you are happy with the beers that is all that matters.  I personally would chalk it up to issues with the hops and not give up. 
 
Also,  like Morty said temp could play a role and also time.  I try not to go over 5 days for my tastes.  But I am also dry hopping at a rate MUCH higher than you.  Closer to 1.5oz/g.

I just went down and checked my notes. It was 5 days of dry hopping (Friday night to Wednesday night) in the keg at basement temps with two ounces of Saphir pellets.

I feel like "bad hops" are going to come through in the final beer whether you add them to the boil or you dry hop with them. I don't know if these were "questionable" and whether adding them to the boil would have produced a better result or not. They smelled just fine when I added them but the character I'm getting is not that great.

[positiveContact]

is saphir perhaps not good for dry hopping?  I've never used them.

[HVB]

I feel like "bad hops" are going to come through in the final beer whether you add them to the boil or you dry hop with them. I don't know if these were "questionable" and whether adding them to the boil would have produced a better result or not. They smelled just fine when I added them but the character I'm getting is not that great.

 

All I know is I had Amarillo that smelled just fine and when used in dryhopping they ruined the beer.  Is this the first time you noticed this or has this been an ongoing issue?

is saphir perhaps not good for dry hopping?  I've never used them.

I just looked them up and from the description they sound like they would be excellent for a dry hop.

 

"similar to Mittlefruh. Sweet, clean, spicy, Noble and citrusy almost tangarine aroma"

Edited by drez77, 22 August 2016 - 07:13 AM.

[denny]

is saphir perhaps not good for dry hopping?  I've never used them.

 

That's my impression.  Can't think of a Saphir dry hopped beer that I've ever liked.

[Big Nake]

All I know is I had Amarillo that smelled just fine and when used in dryhopping they ruined the beer.  Is this the first time you noticed this or has this been an ongoing issue?

I just looked them up and from the description they sound like they would be excellent for a dry hop.
 
"similar to Mittlefruh. Sweet, clean, spicy, Noble and citrusy almost tangarine aroma"

I've had this issue occasionally... not often but occasionally. I have made great dry-hopped beers. I consider any flavor or aroma hop to be suitable for dry hopping but maybe I need to adjust my understanding of that. I have used Amarillo to dry hop with great results so I'm not sure if this is a "bad batch of hops" issue or personal preference or what. Firestone Walker's Pivo Pils uses a lot of Saphir and I like that beer. I'm not sure if the beer is dry-hopped with Saphir or not. Again, I'm not the type to require outrageous hop character in my beers... I'm just not. Loading up the last 15 minutes of the boil, doing a whirlpool or hopstand usually produces results that I'm really happy with. Are there guidelines for what makes a good hop (oil content or beta numbers, myrcene levels, etc) for dry-hopping?

[positiveContact]

I'm guessing it's mostly what you like.  even if you don't want extreme hops I think dry hopping still has a place.  as drez said it's a different hop character than you get from whirlpool or late addition hops.  they all have their place in my opinion.

[Brauer]

I consider Saphir a German noble-style hop. It makes a nice Pilsner, but it seems an unusual hop to use for dry-hopping. Wouldn't that style hop come out rather grassy?

[denny]

I consider Saphir a German noble-style hop. It makes a nice Pilsner, but it seems an unusual hop to use for dry-hopping. Wouldn't that style hop come out rather grassy?

 

Yep, that's what I've experienced with it.

[Big Nake]

It's a little grassy. But I didn't realize it was a poor hop choice for DHing. I guess I know now. What's the criteria? If it works well as a flavor or aroma hop then it's okay for a dry hop? I would think Saphir would be a good flavor or aroma hop. It's certainly not a bittering hop... AA% is too low.

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about in terms of hops. At noon today a keg of APA finished carbing and I just moved it to a draft fridge. Centennial to bitter and late additions of Cascade. I only had a couple of sips of it to make sure it was good. The bitterness and late hoppiness is really nice. I think this was only 2 or 3 ounces of late Cascade and this is my idea of a really nice APA. Had I gone with 4 or 5 ounces, I know it wouldn't be like dry hopping but the late hops would be even more robust. So I guess I'm saying that I'm not one of those brewers who say I JUST CAN'T GET ENOUGH HOP CHARACTER!!! I know there are those people out there and my condolences go out. As far as the Saphir... live and learn I suppose.

EDIT: This APA was actually 26 IBUs of Nugget for 60, an ounce of Centenntial (8.5%) for 10 and then two ounces of Cascade (7.4%)... one at 5 and one at 2. Supposedly 49 IBUs according to the software.

[HVB]

I thought of this thread as I was dryhopping and IPA a little bit ago with 8oz of hops

[neddles]

I thought of this thread as I was dryhopping and IPA a little bit ago with 8oz of hops

Lol. I'm dry hopping a pale ale with mosaic and amarillo as we speak!

[HVB]

Lol. I'm dry hopping a pale ale with mosaic and amarillo as we speak!

Simcoe, mosaic and Columbus for me.

[positiveContact]

I thought of this thread as I was dryhopping and IPA a little bit ago with 8oz of hops

 

 

Lol. I'm dry hopping a pale ale with mosaic and amarillo as we speak!

 

 

Simcoe, mosaic and Columbus for me.

 

[SchwanzBrewer]

Ken, if you've never dry hopped with a certain hop I would make a little tester for it and see how it goes before I put it in a finished beer. Some hops just aren't good to dry hop with.

[neddles]

Ken, if you've never dry hopped with a certain hop I would make a little tester for it and see how it goes before I put it in a finished beer. Some hops just aren't good to dry hop with.

Agree this may be worth his while. I few years ago I dry hopped a 6 pack of Bud Light bottles with 6 different hops. The differences between the hops were very clear.

Edited by neddles, 23 August 2016 - 05:03 AM.

[positiveContact]

Agree this may be worth his while. I few years ago I dry hopped a 6 pack of Bud Light bottles with 6 different hops. The differences between the hops were very clear.

 

did you just recap them after putting some hops in?