52 replies to this topic

[neddles]

The best approach is to just try it and see where it falls in with your tastebuds. For reference, I spoke with a number of professional brewers that I know and it seems like the trend at this moment is to lower maltiness for IPAs, pale ales, ambers, reds, etc. by cutting 2-row (or whatever other base malt is used) with wheat. If the trend is to lower maltiness, Vienna would be going in the opposite direction although you should not interpret that as MUNICH 2 maltiness. It's not like that. Vienna's L° rating is typically 3-5 so neddles is right... it's relatively light but there is something about its production that creates that deeper & maltier character.

My strategy with the recipe was use a more characterful base malt and then back off the higher amount of caramel often found in an Amber Ale. Then lightly hop it like an old school american pale ale.

[shaggaroo]

what if I did like 50:50 pils/vienna and hopped it like an APA?

[Big Nake]

My strategy with the recipe was use a more characterful base malt and then back off the higher amount of caramel often found in an Amber Ale. Then lightly hop it like an old school american pale ale.

That sounds delicious and right up my alley. What color do you envision the beer being and how would you get it without the crystal/caramel? When I make an amber, I use standard Rahr 2-row base malt along with some amount of either Vienna or Munich (like a pound or 2 in 5 gallons) and then use Midnight Wheat for the color although I probably have a bit of C80 in there as well.
 

what if I did like 50:50 pils/vienna and hopped it like an APA?

You would make a great beer. Would you use typical lager hops like Nobles or use something like the clean American hops like Crystal, Glacier, Mt. Hood, Liberty, Santiam, Ultra, Goldings, etc? The Pils/Vienna 50/50 would be great, IMO.

[neddles]

That sounds delicious and right up my alley. What color do you envision the beer being and how would you get it without the crystal/caramel? When I make an amber, I use standard Rahr 2-row base malt along with some amount of either Vienna or Munich (like a pound or 2 in 5 gallons) and then use Midnight Wheat for the color although I probably have a bit of C80 in there as well.

2 oz. midnight wheat was the plan.

6 gallons 

1.054

IBU 27

SRM 12

 

93% Best Vienna (10.25# on my system)

6% Carastan

1% Midnight Wheat

Mash 152F

 

Apollo @ 30

Light mix of Cascade and Willamette @10 and @0

 

WY1450

Edited by neddles, 09 December 2016 - 02:10 PM.

[Big Nake]

2 oz. midnight wheat was the plan.

Oh yeah... I remember that. 2 oz is what I typically use too although my beers have been coming out a little more pale lately so I may have to bump that up. I was also thinking of using some of this double-roasted crystal in an Amber Ale soon too. I would hate to use it and lose it underneath a bunch of other stuff (would MW cover it up?) but I'm at a point right now where I'm not expecting to brew in awhile. I have one more beer to make with 1728 (My Flat Earth Dark & Hoppy Wheat Beer) and then it's getting retired and I have 830 going right now but it's done too... retiring that also. So I'll be getting two more yeasts up and running here which appear to be Omega West Coast Ale and Wyeast 2308 for some dunkel & Vienna action. Choices, choices.

[shaggaroo]

You would make a great beer. Would you use typical lager hops like Nobles or use something like the clean American hops like Crystal, Glacier, Mt. Hood, Liberty, Santiam, Ultra, Goldings, etc? The Pils/Vienna 50/50 would be great, IMO.

I was kind of thinking along the lines of Simcoe/Mosaic... ??

[Big Nake]

I was kind of thinking along the lines of Simcoe/Mosaic... ??

And what yeast?

[matt6150]

I had a version of this beer once and it was great.

Too malty?

[shaggaroo]

And what yeast?

maybe US05

[Big Nake]

maybe US05

Okay, so a pale ale made with Pils, Vienna, Simcoe, Mosaic and US-05. So the question becomes... why use the pilsner? Maybe just go with regular domestic 2-row base malt plus Vienna. The pilsner character won't come through with the hopiness and any character from the yeast. I'm sure it will still be good but I look at pilsner malt for certain applications and when I think that the pils character will be buried under something else, I might save it and use Rahr base malt instead.

[shaggaroo]

Okay, so a pale ale made with Pils, Vienna, Simcoe, Mosaic and US-05. So the question becomes... why use the pilsner? Maybe just go with regular domestic 2-row base malt plus Vienna. The pilsner character won't come through with the hopiness and any character from the yeast. I'm sure it will still be good but I look at pilsner malt for certain applications and when I think that the pils character will be buried under something else, I might save it and use Rahr base malt instead.

pils because it's what I have on hand

[Big Nake]

pils because it's what I have on hand

Aha! The truth comes out. Brew it. Do it.

[HVB]

Too malty?

Not at all.