34 replies to this topic

[HVB]

https://brulosophy.c...riment-results/

 

I have added flaked malts expecting a change in the mouth feel and I just never got it.  Glad to see the results of this one.

 

 

In addition to its unconventional appearance, NEIPA is lauded for its soft mouthfeel and creamy texture, which many believe to be a function of the high percentage of flaked oats in the grist. However, participants’ inability to reliably distinguish a version of NEIPA made with 18% flaked oats from one made without flaked oats sort of throws a wrench in this theory.

 

I will note that Treehouse Brewing, who makes some very hazy NEIPAs (NEAPAs), has claimed they do not use flaked malts in their standard hoppy beers. 

 

I did recently try malted oat but the jury is still out on that.  I need to re-brew the beer with a different yeast.

 

 

[positiveContact]

if this means yet another grain I don't need to stock I'll take it

[denny]

Exactly the same experience I've had making oatmeal stouts.  No surprise here.

[positiveContact]

Exactly the same experience I've had making oatmeal stouts.  No surprise here.

 

one advantage is that it's a pretty cheap adjunct if I'm remembering the grocery store price correctly.  I think it's about 50 cent/lb.

[HVB]

Exactly the same experience I've had making oatmeal stouts.  No surprise here.

I remember you mentioning it before.  I have tried to think back and I cannot come up with a beer I brewed that the oats made a huge impact on the final product.

[neddles]

The mouthfeel Im looking for in NEIPA and that Im looking for in an Oatmeal Stout are not the same thing at all. Ive not used oats in a NEIPA as I have not found them necessary. They certainly wont hurt anything if used. No surprises in this article for me.

[HVB]

The mouthfeel Im looking for in NEIPA and that Im looking for in an Oatmeal Stout are not the same thing at all. Ive not used oats in a NEIPA as I have not found them necessary. They certainly wont hurt anything if used. No surprises in this article for me.

if you follow the "trends" on the hb side from brewing NE style beers you will see a lot of flaked malts.  I agree that I have brewed them with no flaked and they came out to my liking.  I think the water and hops play more of a role.

[neddles]

Ive seen that for a long time now. IME having enough protein in the beer upon dry hopping is the key. Thats my theory and it has been consistent thus far. At IPA gravities there is usually enough protien to get the job done. Flaked or other higher protein malts can help particularly at lower OGs.

Also consistent IME is that the mouthfeel is derived from the binding of hop polyphenols with residual protein in the beer and not from high levels of beta glucans (oats/flaked adjuct) specifically.

I am increasingly convinced the yeast strain appears not to matter in terms of haze and hop presentation. I also have my doubts about biotransformation having anything to do with the hop character. NEIPA can be easily be created in a beer fined of all yeast. Next time you make one compare the mouthfeel before and after the dry hop.

Edited by neddles, 21 November 2016 - 11:09 AM.

[HVB]

Ive seen that for a long time now. IME having enough protein in the beer upon dry hopping is the key. Thats my theory and it has been consistent thus far. At IPA gravities there is usually enough protien to get the job done. Flaked or other higher protein malts can help particularly at lower OGs.

Also consistent IME is that the mouthfeel is derived from the binding of hop polyphenols with residual protein in the beer and not from high levels of beta glucans (oats/flaked adjuct) specifically.

I am increasingly convinced the yeast strain appears not to matter in terms of haze and hop presentation. I also have my doubts about biotransformation having anything to do with the hop character. NEIPA can be easily be created in a beer fined of all yeast. Next time you make one compare the mouthfeel before and after the dry hop.

I agree in yeast.  I have made them with all different kinds and the haze stays.  I tend to cold crash before I dry hop mine. I am not one that will add the hops on day 2-3 of fermentation mainly because I just do not have the time and forget!

[neddles]

I agree in yeast. I have made them with all different kinds and the haze stays. I tend to cold crash before I dry hop mine. I am not one that will add the hops on day 2-3 of fermentation mainly because I just do not have the time and forget!

... and Ill bet you still get the juicy and fruity hop presentation. (IOW, sans biotransformation)

[djinkc]

I make an oatmeal pale ale fairly regularly.  Never noticed a big difference in mouthfeel compared to my regular pale ales.  

[3rd party JKor]

Have they actually had an experiment that showed significant results yet? I feel like every one that i've read shows that there's no difference between process/ingredient A and process/ingredient B.

Maybe it's time they do one that is a slam dunk just to validate their methodology.

[neddles]

Have they actually had an experiment that showed significant results yet? I feel like every one that i've read shows that there's no difference between process/ingredient A and process/ingredient B.

Maybe it's time they do one that is a slam dunk just to validate their methodology.

Water chemistry IIRC

 

ETA: Negative results are just as informative in my mind.

Edited by neddles, 21 November 2016 - 03:18 PM.

[Brauer]

Water chemistry IIRC

ETA: Negative results are just as informative in my mind.

Yup, water chemistry seems to be the most significant variable in brewing. Kinda throws all that advice about it being the last thing to worry about out the window...

[3rd party JKor]

I don't think i've read the water chemistry one (ones?). Some bed time reading for tonight.

[Brauer]

Another significant affect was 66°F vs 76°F fermentation for WLP002.

[3rd party JKor]

They've done a lot since i last read the page, probably last summer. The most interesting (though maybe not useful) was getting significant results on both the bucket vs PET carboy and PET vs glass carboy. Considering some of the experiments that didn't show significant differences, the fermenter ones really blow me away.

[positiveContact]

They've done a lot since i last read the page, probably last summer. The most interesting (though maybe not useful) was getting significant results on both the bucket vs PET carboy and PET vs glass carboy. Considering some of the experiments that didn't show significant differences, the fermenter ones really blow me away.

 

yeah.  that fermentor one really makes me wonder if there is something else going on that is messing up their experiment.  at our scale how much of a difference can those geometries and time spent in a container that is slightly more or less oxygen permeable really matter?

[3rd party JKor]

The strangest thing was that for the PET vs Glass, even Marshall couldn't tell the difference in his own blind triangle tests, but the tasters could tell the difference. It seems like in almost every experiment the experimenter is able to pick out the different beers even when the tasters don't show significant results. Having it go the other way is curious.

I thinknat some point you also have to consider that every fermentation is different regardless of how much you control. I'd be curious to see results from two different fermenters of the same material. I.e. Two identical PET carboys.

[positiveContact]

The strangest thing was that for the PET vs Glass, even Marshall couldn't tell the difference in his own blind triangle tests, but the tasters could tell the difference. It seems like in almost every experiment the experimenter is able to pick out the different beers even when the tasters don't show significant results. Having it go the other way is curious.

I thinknat some point you also have to consider that every fermentation is different regardless of how much you control. I'd be curious to see results from two different fermenters of the same material. I.e. Two identical PET carboys.

 

yeah, I mean ideally you'd produce a huge amount of wort and split it amongst all of the fermenters with multiple buckets, PET carboys, and glass carboys.  then you could at least get an idea of the kind of variability you see normally regardless of making a change.