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Quicker Lager Temps


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#1 johnpreuss

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:08 PM

I can't remember the temps for the quicker lager method.  I brewed last Friday.  I started in a room that was 50dF ambient in 6 gallon fermenters.  It was still chugging along today so I kicked it up to 55dF ambient.  Was that warm enough?  And is there a 3rd step other than a D-Rest?

 

Its been a while and I didn't see it in my notes.  Thanks.



#2 Big Nake

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:48 PM

I know I've seen this but I haven't tried it. But... I'll be watching this JP because I've been thinking about trying it as well.

#3 neddles

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:43 PM

I don't have a strict temperature or gravity regimen. On the last few lagers I have done I simply let it go for 3-4 days at 50ºF and then raised it several degrees over the next couple of days up to maybe 58ºF. When activity began to wane I simply removed the fermentors from the fridge and set them at ambient ~65-67ºF for another week or so before crashing and kegging. Worked perfectly. Used this with both W34/70 and WY2308. IIRC I was drinking the W34/70 Pilsner at 22 days and could probably have drank it sooner had I hurried the crash and packaging along.



#4 johnpreuss

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:45 PM

I've turned a lager in 5 weeks but that was a lots of yeast, fermented at 50, and I let it warm up at the end for a week... no off flavors, I think it was German pilsner.

#5 neddles

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:47 PM

What yeast are you running in the current batch?



#6 johnpreuss

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:57 PM

W34/70

#7 neddles

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:02 PM

Sounds like you're on the right path to me.



#8 Steve Urquell

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 05:54 AM

I don't have a strict temperature or gravity regimen. On the last few lagers I have done I simply let it go for 3-4 days at 50ºF and then raised it several degrees over the next couple of days up to maybe 58ºF. When activity began to wane I simply removed the fermentors from the fridge and set them at ambient ~65-67ºF for another week or so before crashing and kegging. Worked perfectly. Used this with both W34/70 and WY2308. IIRC I was drinking the W34/70 Pilsner at 22 days and could probably have drank it sooner had I hurried the crash and packaging along.

About what I do. 50F pitch then up to 55 after 3-4 days then unplug and free rise when airlock activity slows. Warm if necessary to 70F after activity stops to burn off acetaldehyde for 3+ days, taste for flaws and crash only if there are none.



#9 positiveContact

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:17 AM

About what I do. 50F pitch then up to 55 after 3-4 days then unplug and free rise when airlock activity slows. Warm if necessary to 70F after activity stops to burn off acetaldehyde for 3+ days, taste for flaws and crash only if there are none.

 

same here pretty much.  I usually only make it up to mid 60s though.



#10 Poptop

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:29 AM

I've read this a bunch of times and intend on doing it with my next batch, my first lager; a 34/70 Jamil Vienna. It makes sense to me. https://brulosophy.c...s/lager-method/

I've also read and reread Tasty McDole's quick method in D's lastest book. Can't find a link.

#11 denny

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:37 AM

Next issue of BYO will have an article I wrote about fast lager fermentation.



#12 johnpreuss

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:28 PM

I believe the time at or around 70 really cleans up the beer. 



#13 denny

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:39 PM

Actually, the cleanup should happen simultaneously with fermentation, rather than afterward.  That's something I cover in the BYO article.



#14 positiveContact

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 01:27 PM

Actually, the cleanup should happen simultaneously with fermentation, rather than afterward.  That's something I cover in the BYO article.

 

yeup!  works great for ales too.  I think it's not just faster but that it might be better as well.  seems like all win if you have the means to do it.



#15 Big Nake

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 01:42 PM

I don't have a strict temperature or gravity regimen. On the last few lagers I have done I simply let it go for 3-4 days at 50ºF and then raised it several degrees over the next couple of days up to maybe 58ºF. When activity began to wane I simply removed the fermentors from the fridge and set them at ambient ~65-67ºF for another week or so before crashing and kegging. Worked perfectly. Used this with both W34/70 and WY2308. IIRC I was drinking the W34/70 Pilsner at 22 days and could probably have drank it sooner had I hurried the crash and packaging along.

I'd like to try this and I was wondering whether people were taking hydro samples to determine 50% or what. 3-4 days seems reasonable to me as a "50% done" mark and I could totally adjust the fridge temp up to 58° or whatever for another few days and then take it out and leave it on the basement floor. I'll try it on my next one. Cheers.

#16 neddles

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 01:49 PM

I'd like to try this and I was wondering whether people were taking hydro samples to determine 50% or what. 3-4 days seems reasonable to me as a "50% done" mark and I could totally adjust the fridge temp up to 58° or whatever for another few days and then take it out and leave it on the basement floor. I'll try it on my next one. Cheers.

No hydro samples for me. Not sure its worth the effort. Not sure there is any magic to the numbers. I think its just important to have a healthy fermentation well underway at the cold temps before starting the rise.



#17 positiveContact

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 02:04 PM

I'd like to try this and I was wondering whether people were taking hydro samples to determine 50% or what. 3-4 days seems reasonable to me as a "50% done" mark and I could totally adjust the fridge temp up to 58° or whatever for another few days and then take it out and leave it on the basement floor. I'll try it on my next one. Cheers.


I don't usually measure. I just wait for airlock activity to seem like it's on the way down before I start ramping the temp. I then continue to ramp as activity seems to slow.  I try to let the airlock be my guide even though I know it's not very reliable.  it's something though.


Edited by Evil_Morty, 01 December 2016 - 02:05 PM.


#18 denny

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 02:41 PM

I'd like to try this and I was wondering whether people were taking hydro samples to determine 50% or what. 3-4 days seems reasonable to me as a "50% done" mark and I could totally adjust the fridge temp up to 58° or whatever for another few days and then take it out and leave it on the basement floor. I'll try it on my next one. Cheers.

 

Ken, of you read my article (when it comes out) I talk about a few different theories about how to do it.  Some are more stringent than others.  Me, I go for the "that's a reasonable amount of time" theory.



#19 Big Nake

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 03:07 PM

Ken, of you read my article (when it comes out) I talk about a few different theories about how to do it.  Some are more stringent than others.  Me, I go for the "that's a reasonable amount of time" theory.

I like it. I have a more relaxed approach to brewing anyway. So much so... that I just went downstairs where my American Lager has been fermenting at about 48° for 5 days. I just took it out and left it on the basement floor. I feel like I was past the point of ramping up so I just took it out. It was the 4th run of a blob of 830 and it had already started to throw some sulfur so it was well past the 50% mark. Think I'll notice anything weird with that move? Ordinarily I would have left that beer in there for 10-14 days and then taken it out of the fridge for a d-rest.

#20 denny

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 03:34 PM

I like it. I have a more relaxed approach to brewing anyway. So much so... that I just went downstairs where my American Lager has been fermenting at about 48° for 5 days. I just took it out and left it on the basement floor. I feel like I was past the point of ramping up so I just took it out. It was the 4th run of a blob of 830 and it had already started to throw some sulfur so it was well past the 50% mark. Think I'll notice anything weird with that move? Ordinarily I would have left that beer in there for 10-14 days and then taken it out of the fridge for a d-rest.

 

My guess is that you'll never notice the difference.




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