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Kloudy Kolsch Kwestion


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#1 Poptop

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 01:57 PM

Rather than booger up the Picture thread, I was wondering if my 029 Kolsch is cloudy because of the shortened boil? Delving into this, I have sorta split the difference and have begun doing 40 minutes. My Kolsch'ish ale is 94% Weyermann Pale Malt, 3% Barke Vienna and 3% White Wheat. It fermented out and went to keg with no secondary. After a few days of carbing and chilling I used half pack of gel that did not clean it up. A few days later I added the other half with no luck. In fact, it's been in the keg for about 3 weeks and is still cloudy. Any thoughts on this?

Good news is, the taste is light and awesome, used Aramis.

Edited by Steppedonapoptop, 02 December 2016 - 01:58 PM.


#2 neddles

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 02:05 PM

Have you used gelatin before? Did you dissolve it in water first? Was there a dry hop added? I know that is reputed to be a powdery yeast but gelatin should have impacted it.



#3 Big Nake

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 02:11 PM

I make my Kolsch with 2565 and while it's stubborn, I am usually able to get the beer very clear and all of the standard guidelines apply: A good 50-60ppm of calcium in the water, proper pH, standard 60-minute relatively vigorous boil, whirfloc with 7-8 minutes left in the boil, a quick chill, allow kettle to settle and transfer of mostly clear wort, oxygenate, pitch active yeast, leave in primary for a good 3 weeks, rack to keg, chill, then hit it with the gel solution, carb and wait a week or so more. First or second pint are cloudy and then clear beer follows. I just did this with 1007 (another low-floccer) on an Alt and also a German Pale Ale. The alt looked filtered, the pale ale was clear but not as clear as the alt.

#4 Poptop

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 02:45 PM

Have you used gelatin before? Did you dissolve it in water first? Was there a dry hop added? I know that is reputed to be a powdery yeast but gelatin should have impacted it.


I've used gelatin on several occasions and with 029, which made a crystal clear APA not too long ago.
No Dry hopping.

Do you think the lessened boil may be an issue?
Would there be an issue with adding gel to beer that is in the process of carbing? If I recall Ken, you do that all the time no?

#5 neddles

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:22 PM

Do you think the lessened boil may be an issue?

I doubt it but… how long was the boil?

 

Would there be an issue with adding gel to beer that is in the process of carbing? If I recall Ken, you do that all the time no?

 

Not in my experience.

 

Do you normally make beers of similar gravity and color?



#6 Big Nake

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:34 PM

If I recall Ken, you do that all the time no?

Typically I keg and then leave the beer in the fridge to get cold overnight... next morning prepare the gel and add it to the keg and then immediately start my 25psi-for-48-hour carb routine. This has worked very nicely on everything from pale Munich helles to my Mexican Dark Lager, Vienna and Dunkel. You know the gel did its important work because the first pint is really sludgy.

#7 HVB

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 04:29 PM

Do you think the lessened boil may be an issue?


No, I don't but I have not tried a 30 minute with that yeast but I have not had any 30 minute beers not clear if I wanted them to.

#8 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 04:28 PM

Gel not mixed well?

#9 Poptop

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 06:14 AM

Gel not mixed well?


Perfectly mixed me thinks

#10 HVB

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 06:20 AM

Why do you feel the 30-minute is causing this?  Just curious. 



#11 Poptop

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 06:22 AM

For reference, the boil was a vigorous 40 minutes and I've used similar grains. A real head scratcher.

#12 Big Nake

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 06:58 AM

Why do you feel the 30-minute is causing this?  Just curious.

Way back in the old days of homebrewing, one of the keys to clear beer was said to be "a vigorous boil" and 60 minutes was considered standard while many people were doing 90s. I never did a 90 even when they were talking about the need for mostly pilsner grain bills requiring it... I figured that 60 was enough because I had been doing 60s without issue. Then you started talking about 30s. There were a lot of "guidelines" back then and we know (thanks to things like Exbeeriments) that many of them were nonsense but once those things are stuck in your head it's hard to let them go! :D

#13 HVB

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:14 AM

Way back in the old days of homebrewing, one of the keys to clear beer was said to be "a vigorous boil" and 60 minutes was considered standard while many people were doing 90s. I never did a 90 even when they were talking about the need for mostly pilsner grain bills requiring it... I figured that 60 was enough because I had been doing 60s without issue. Then you started talking about 30s. There were a lot of "guidelines" back then and we know (thanks to things like Exbeeriments) that many of them were nonsense but once those things are stuck in your head it's hard to let them go! :D

I think my almost all pils helles should show that you can be clear at 30 :)



#14 Poptop

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:05 AM

Why do you feel the 30-minute is causing this?  Just curious.


It's really just a guess. As mentioned, I made a nice Pale Ale using 029 that I hit with gel and it was clear as a bell. That was a 60 minute boil. I really don't know the answer here. I'm just looking at the things I changed for this batch, one being a 40 minute boil. There's just no reason this batch shouldn't be clear and I'm stumped.

#15 Big Nake

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 09:15 AM

It's really just a guess. As mentioned, I made a nice Pale Ale using 029 that I hit with gel and it was clear as a bell. That was a 60 minute boil. I really don't know the answer here. I'm just looking at the things I changed for this batch, one being a 40 minute boil. There's just no reason this batch shouldn't be clear and I'm stumped.

It could be any number of things including protein content in the malt you used, a higher-than-desired kettle pH and even yeast that was in poor health to the point where it didn't want to floc. If a beer sits for a long time without clearing or is stubborn to clear then I would suspect something pesky (like elevated proteins & tannins since the combination of those two create haze) or kettle pH because they say that when you boil at a higher pH, any haze in the wort will be pretty much locked-in without giving you the chance to drop it out. Last year or the year before I made a kolsch that would not clear (with 2565). I think I posted a shot of it and it was really miserable-looking. But... it did taste good and I just drank it without losing much sleep. I looked at the grains I used, my pH, etc. and nothing jumped out at me.

Here's the offending kolsch. It pretty much stayed this way until the keg kicked. This was 2014.

1jvukl.jpg

#16 Poptop

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:29 AM

That's mine to a Tee but damn if it doesn't taste fantastic. I'll live with it for sure. Next time will be clear dammit. Oh yea, there's gonna be a next time :)

#17 HVB

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:38 AM

NEKolsch - the style for 2017!



#18 Big Nake

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 12:02 PM

What's funny is that I make A LOT of gold beers... helles, pils, American lager, kolsch, blonde ale, etc. and I have gotten pretty good at getting them clear. Between water adjustment, pH control, whirfloc, gel (and possibly brewtan), I have made some very, very clear gold beers. I remember checking my notes on this batch to see if something would jump out and it didn't. Could my meter have been acting up? Did I use a malt that was new to me (pretty sure NO) or what?

#19 Poptop

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 12:24 PM

NEKolsch - the style for 2017!


BING!


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