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Need a beer for the KY Derby


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#1 Poptop

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:01 AM

I want to provide a corny of an easy drinking beer for my friends Kentucky Derby party. I've been reading what I can on an old beer; Kentucky Common, which seems to have lost all translation or in other words no real recipes out there. From what I've read, the KYC is a tad on the dark side, low abv and I'd guess sub 30 IBU's. So. I'm open to suggestions. My Vienna Lager came out so nice I am considering going that route, maybe with WY1007 instead. Basically I'm all over the board..

#2 positiveContact

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:12 AM

I think a Vienna lager would be a good crowd pleaser so I'd go with that.  does "common" mean that it should be a steam beer?  I'd think 2124 or equivalent at 60F would be nice even if not very steam beer like.

 

for color I think I might go slightly less dark than dos equis amber but that's just me.


Edited by Evil_Morty, 17 January 2017 - 09:13 AM.


#3 HVB

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:18 AM

I thought most Kentucky Common beers were sour.



#4 positiveContact

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:23 AM

I thought most Kentucky Common beers were sour.

 

well that changes things!  was that just b/c they weren't good at sanitation back then?



#5 Big Nake

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:23 AM

American Pub Ale. Easy drinking, goes well with food, has some color, on the low side for IBUs, etc.

#6 Poptop

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:25 AM

I think a Vienna lager would be a good crowd pleaser so I'd go with that.  does "common" mean that it should be a steam beer?  I'd think 2124 or equivalent at 60F would be nice even if not very steam beer like.
 
for color I think I might go slightly less dark than dos equis amber but that's just me.


In my reading the "common" part would be like a steam beer I suppose. Calls for ale yeast. I'm exactly thinking the color you're thinking and Jamil's Vienna recipe is so easy, I can only imagine it blending very well with a large variety of ale and lager yeasts.
 
 

I thought most Kentucky Common beers were sour.


In reading, the sour part was pretty common because most of the beer of the time went to barrel and I imagine barrel re-use was huge. Hence sour. It's explained that it was served young and quickly.

 

Here's a description I'm liking. Apocalyps Brewworks Kentucky: Oertel’s 1912: Dark Cream 4.5% 29 IBU - Brewed from the original recipe from the Oertel’s Brewery from 1912. Crisp, clean and very drinkable with a hint of caramel malt.



#7 HVB

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:35 AM

well that changes things!  was that just b/c they weren't good at sanitation back then?

Not sure.  I had a friend that researched them a lot several years ago and they always had a lactic sourness to them.  The grist also had some amount of corn/maize.



#8 Poptop

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:41 AM

Yea, I read the corn thing too.  I have to say, I'm looking forward to enough research to do something cool here.  Just not sure what yet haha.



#9 Big Nake

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:53 AM

There is some good information HERE including just about everything you would need to construct a recipe. Looks to be about 60% base malt (6-row), 35% corn (which is quite high percentage-wise), 1½ to 2% black malt (Midnight Wheat would work) and 1½% or so of "caramel malt". They call for a "western hop" (California Gray or variant... there's a weird one) for bittering, Cluster hops for flavor and imported German or Bohemian hops for aroma. Steam yeast appears to be the one to use. Pretty fascinating historical beer.

#10 Hines

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 10:51 AM

I was gonna suggest Memory Lapse Pale Ale.  But that doesn't fit what you are requesting.   It's a crowd pleaser though!



#11 Poptop

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 11:09 AM

Ken, cool find.  It's printing out as we speak.  Man I love looking at old written recipes; culinary, brewing you name it.  Funny.  I already had my mind on some Midnight Wheat for color adjust.  Been using if for that in several beers as of late.  A little goes a long way with no notice to taste.



#12 Big Nake

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 11:20 AM

Ken, cool find.  It's printing out as we speak.  Man I love looking at old written recipes; culinary, brewing you name it.  Funny.  I already had my mind on some Midnight Wheat for color adjust.  Been using if for that in several beers as of late.  A little goes a long way with no notice to taste.

Agreed on the MW. I would totally put a recipe together to do this but it would only be half-hearted. I would not use 6-row. I would not use that much corn. I would not use a steam yeast. I would use the hops I have on hand and I could do my best to use something "old-school-ish" like Willamette or Brewers Gold something. I have no issue with Cluster but I don't keep it on-hand and I wouldn't buy it just for this. But I could easily see making a beer like this and I would make it pretty dark, I think. That would make it more of an off-the-map beer for me as opposed to one of these amber-colored American Pub Ales which I make often as it is. When you put a recipe together, please post it.

#13 Big Nake

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 11:34 AM

Just tinkering... The black patent would be Midnight Wheat. I would probably use this OYL-004 that I have in place for the yeast. The corn is lowered but that's just my preference. The hops just happen to be "in stock" here and relatively old-school types.

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#14 Poptop

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 11:46 AM

I think you just designed another winner.



#15 Big Nake

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 11:53 AM

It occurs to me that the original recipes varied a lot and I can see why... plenty of variables here to tweak but still come up with a beer that's in the zip code. I also see that I only ended up at 4.4% too which I might adjust slightly higher. I can see myself making a batch of this. When people asked about it the story (of the Kentucky Common) alone would be worth the effort! :D I might call the beer Falls City Dark.

#16 Poptop

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 11:59 AM

Great minds.  I am leaning towards Falls City Common :)  Yes, I think there's plenty of room for play, which I would absolutely do.  Unfortunately, there's no real McCoy to taste.  R&D of course.


I'd want it clear to boot.



#17 Big Nake

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 12:08 PM

Great minds.  I am leaning towards Falls City Common :)  Yes, I think there's plenty of room for play, which I would absolutely do.  Unfortunately, there's no real McCoy to taste.  R&D of course.

I'd want it clear to boot.

I think I would want it clear. The description in the story of the beer being "muddy" doesn't really appeal to me. Big surprise. :D

#18 Poptop

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 12:17 PM

Yea, muddy doesn't ever really appeal.  However I work this, it must be neutral enough for a varied crowd.




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