20 replies to this topic

[johnpreuss]

I know I've been pretty much MIA for the last year or two... This past year we have been doing a complete remodel / expansion of our house.  In the process we are splitting a giant bathroom/laundry into 2 rooms a bathroom and pantry.  This new pantry has a dedicated 240 circuit, water and a drain(old laundry). The first thing that came to mind was an indoor electric system and SWMBO didn't even bat an eye at this idea, all she asked is how I'd vent it.  (EASIEST OF ALL THE QUESTIONS!!! )

 

I'll be honest.  I have always just skipped over the electric threads, I have always planned to be propane til I died. But now I have questions before I can even think about this project.

 

First - Do I have to flysparge or can I keep with the batch sparge?

Second - is it possible to run a 2 vessel system and still do 12 gallon batches?

Third - If I had to go 2 vessel / 3 vessel, what kind of a footprint would I be looking at?

Fourth - Would I want to use my keggles or invest in new kettles?

 

I'm still in the middle of my remodel, to be honest maybe this is all a pipe dream or at least a couple five years out.  But as you all know, if SWMBO doesn't say no, that a green light to get an idea moving! 

[HVB]

I batch sparge or no sparge with mine.  If I was to do it over again I would seriously think about a single vessel electric BIAB system.  Footprint is really a function of the kettles IMO.  You can have them as close as you want.  Speaking of Kettles I started off with keggels but replaced them with 62qt Bayou Classic kettle.  I just liked the lighter kettle to lift and clean. There is no reason your keggles will now work, just a persona preference.

[gnef]

I would say that the answer to your questions are all: you can do whatever you design the system to do.

 

I batch sparge on my system, which is really just a converted propane setup. I kept my HLT, BK, and cooler mash tun, I just drilled the holes and silver soldered fittings for the elements.

 

I reused my propane single tier, just shortened it up, and put it in a permanent location in the garage/basement, added vent, plumbing, wall mounted the grain mill, ran the power (which you already have setup), and made some really simple control panels (basic panel for the HLT separate from the BK).

 

The only thing I would say for you to modify, in terms of electricity, is to change out your breaker in your panel to a GFCI breaker at the same amp rating as your current one, and even double check your wiring gauge to make sure you are within code.

 

There are a LOT of different ways to go electric, and many of us here have posted about our systems (I can post a link of my build if you want), and also on HBT. 

 

I think you need to spend the time to figure out your budget first, and then to think about what your priorities are, the flow of your brew day, and then you can begin designing your electric conversion.

 

If you give us an idea of what you are thinking and your budget, we can help you design it, but ultimately, it will need to be specific to you and what you desire.

 

Some questions that I would encourage you to think about:

1. How much amperage are you limited by, and will you need to be able to run two elements full power simultaneously?

2. How do you feel with household wiring? With small gauge wiring? Would you prefer to buy a prebuilt controller, or build your own custom panel?

3. How much automation do you want?

4. How are you chilling, and would it need to be modified for use indoors?

5. What is your budget, and how flexible is it?

[passlaku]

You should consider this

httpss://www.williamsbrewing.com/BREWERS-EDGE-MASH-BOIL--P4216.aspx

[positiveContact]

You should consider this

httpss://www.williamsbrewing.com/BREWERS-EDGE-MASH-BOIL--P4216.aspx

 

If I had access to 220V you know I'd be using that if I could!  does anyone make something like that but with 220V?

[HVB]

If I had access to 220V you know I'd be using that if I could!  does anyone make something like that but with 220V?

This is 220vac but a bit more money.  https://www.highgrav...0V-269p3987.htm

 

I would never do electric brewing at 120vac.  Just takes way to long to heat IMO.

[positiveContact]

phew.  $1000 just to make some wort seems like a lot to me.  I'm sure it's easier though.

[HVB]

phew.  $1000 just to make some wort seems like a lot to me.  I'm sure it's easier though.

DIY is of course cheaper but not everyone wants to go that route.

[positiveContact]

DIY is of course cheaper but not everyone wants to go that route.

 

I fear pumps.

[HVB]

I fear pumps.

Why?

[positiveContact]

Why?

 

price, cleaning them, something else to break.  probably mostly unfounded

[HVB]

price, cleaning them, something else to break.  probably mostly unfounded

I see. I just have an extra in case it breaks down and cleaning is just part of my normal process.  I am not sure I would want to brew with out pumps.

[positiveContact]

I see. I just have an extra in case it breaks down and cleaning is just part of my normal process.  I am not sure I would want to brew with out pumps.

 

someday if I rework my system maybe I'll pump it up.

[johnpreuss]

Well, I definitely want pumps. I saw a two vessel unit that has me intrigued. I'll have to do a little more thinking on this and get the link posted.

I'm fine with doing the wiring. How much can be saved doing it yourself, ball park of course.

[Hines]

evil_morty, what line of work are you in?

 

Sometimes I forget a lot of this crew is in the engineering field.....  (no offense meant, i wish i had more of an engineers mentality and skills!)

[johnpreuss]

Ok I think I kind of know what I want.  2 vessels.  1 - Mashtun 2-HLT/Boil Kettle  The only element would be in the HLT/BK. It would be a "no sparge" method I guess.  You would have the system recirculate the wort throughout the mash.  Chilling I'm not sure.  I've always been a IC guy and with the pumps I'm sure you could get a nice whirlpool going but on the flip side a plate chiller could speed the process I guess but I have zero experience with those. 

 

So what kind of controls would I need to achieve this? 

[gnef]

If you are going with a single element in a single vessel that will double duty as HLT and BK, I would go with an Auber style PID (there are a lot of other companies out there, but this is one of the more recognized brands, and also one of the more expensive, so keep that in mind).

 

The PID will be able to hit the temperature that you want when using as a HLT (you will need the thermocouple in a thermowell below the liquid level in the kettle), and then when using as a BK, you set the PID to % mode, and you set the power level that you want. There are special terms for all of this, but that should be a good start for you to look in to.

 

since you are only doing a single element, your control panel can be very simple. You'll want a mains switch, wire in the PID inputs and outputs, and that is really about all you need. You can get fancy if you want, adding in a kill switch, leds, switches for your pumps, etc. but you can keep it as simple as you want.

 

For chilling, and IC will typically be the least efficient, in both time and water. (the exception to this is the jaded IC). I personally like counterflow chillers because the tubing is large enough that debri doesn't get stuck like it would in a plate chiller, and the counterflow is fairly easy to clean by just flushing. You can also build or buy one of the straight pipe counterflow chillers (jaded has one as well, but it is pricey).

 

It also depends on your ground water temperature. If it is low enough for you to do a single pass with it, then you may be set. If it isn't, you may want to think about dual stage chilling, which could either be a post chiller, or a second counterflow, or second plate, etc.

[johnpreuss]

So this would work for controlling the element, but would I want to upgrade to 100a? If I did that do you think that heat sink would be big enough?
https://www.ebay.com...E-/261842135791

[HVB]

Why would you want to upgrade to 100a?  That is the rating of the SSR and 60amps is plenty, more than enough really.

 

what size element?  5500w? 

 

ETA:  to get an idea of the equipment in the control panel take a look at this one I have not bought from there but it was just a good place to show what you may need.

 

 

https://www.ebrewsup...anel-1-element/

Edited by drez77, 23 February 2017 - 10:06 AM.

[johnpreuss]

I only asked about the 100a because it was a free upgrade! 

 

Thanks for the link. 

 

I see there are different materials for the element as well as the straight or wavy elements.  I'm sure someone can argue for benefits or why they prefer one over another but is there really any performance difference??