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Tap tear down and replacement....


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#1 djinkc

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:58 PM

I have two Perlick and 2 Ventmatic forward seal taps.  Almost all are pouring bad and I'm sure it's time to replace some seals. The last time I had this problem one of the o-rings was toast - probably from me over tightening.   Any suggestions on replacements?


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#2 ER Pemberton

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:40 PM

I'm still rocking four Ventmatics. Two older/original types and two "UltraFlo" jobbies. They're all functioning well. My last "big" tap project was replacing my beer lines with that satanic Bev-Flex Ultra or whatever it's called. The stuff is like PVC. Yes, once you get it in place and out of the way, the pours are great but it's so stiff that some swearing will occur. DJ, I remember something about Ventmatic coming back and releasing new faucets and then disappearing again and then Shirron making a comeback. The landscape keeps changing.

Here's something I haven't seen -> INTERTAP. It looks like a Ventmatic.

#3 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:28 PM

I just did this on 3 perlicks. Easy enough to do. You can get the O-rings at ace, they are standard sizes. I don't remember off hand what the sizes are. I tore them down, soaked them in beer line cleaner for a while, rinsed, and put them back together with the new O-rings. Super easy and they seal perfectly again.


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#4 Evil_Morty

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:17 AM

this is the ring that does the "forward sealing" that you guys are talking about?


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#5 djinkc

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 06:23 PM

This pour problem won't go away.  My routine is to keg in a corny and put it a non-serving kegerator.  Cold and carbed there.  Transfer when needed to the serving kegerator.  More often than not pours are terrible.  Gotta nurse it to get something decent unless several are pour successively - even then it's a crap shoot.  I've done this forever with no problems and it has just gone to hell the last few months.

 

I thought possibly the reg on the conditioning kegerator was off so I replaced it.  I'm conditioning and carbing at about 6 psi.  I serve at 10 psi - lines are way longer than needed.  I trust the serving pressure readings - have dual serving pressures that are set the same.  

 

A few hours ago I kegged a batch.  My routine is to open purge with CO2, fill, and then purge through the out post with the lid on a few times.  Release the PRV a few times for the head space and transfer to the conditioning kegerator.  It hadn't been more that 15 minutes since I hit the newly filled keg with 10 psi from the serving kegerator tank when I put it in the conditioning kegerator.  I hear gas going in when I connect it.  I guess some could have gone into solution............  This is driving me nuts.


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#6 ER Pemberton

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 06:31 PM

I just saw something today on the Beverage Factory website about getting the best pour with the length of your lines instead of futzing with pressure. I know you said your lines are long but how long are they? Is there a restriction somewhere?



#7 djinkc

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 06:49 PM

I just saw something today on the Beverage Factory website about getting the best pour with the length of your lines instead of futzing with pressure. I know you said your lines are long but how long are they? Is there a restriction somewhere?

 

I went through all the calcs and line lengths years ago.  I settled on what worked great at my place.  Something has changed here and I don't know what.  There's a thermometer in the conditioning kegerator now and I'll check the serving one tomorrow.  I doubt the temp difference is enough for the problems I'm having.


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#8 ER Pemberton

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 06:56 PM

How many faucets?

I have a problem grasping how all of your taps could be experiencing this at the same time unless someone cranked up your pressure or something. I could see one deteriorating tap or one restricted line but for it to be system-wide it would have to be something that impacted all of it. I did notice that my old lines were quite stained and I concluded that even with a good cleaning and sanitizing that my lines needed to be replaced which is why I went ahead with the Bev-Flex stuff. It's supposed to hold up longer and resist staining and build-up. I know it's frustrating... keep us posted.

#9 djinkc

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:04 PM

How many faucets?

I have a problem grasping how all of your taps could be experiencing this at the same time unless someone cranked up your pressure or something. I could see one deteriorating tap or one restricted line but for it to be system-wide it would have to be something that impacted all of it. I did notice that my old lines were quite stained and I concluded that even with a good cleaning and sanitizing that my lines needed to be replaced which is why I went ahead with the Bev-Flex stuff. It's supposed to hold up longer and resist staining and build-up. I know it's frustrating... keep us posted.

 

Four.  The keg that blew today was behaving semi decently the last few days.  I guess I need to shoot one keg up to 20psi or so and see if that helps with CO2 breakout in the line.


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#10 ER Pemberton

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:30 PM

I mentioned that when I changed over to the new line that after a session it will settle a little which means the first pour of the next session may feature some foam and CO2 for a second and then the pour is fine. I might get a slightly bigger head on the first beer. I remember you saying that the same thing was common at your place and that you just dealt with it. I tried to futz with pressure and get it balanced better but I feel like I have it about as good as it can get. My serving pressure is on the low side... maybe 8-10psi. I generally carb beers about the same way... 25psi for 48 hours so I don't really have differences from beer to beer. I might occasionally have a keg where I missed the carb shut-off time by a couple of hours so that keg might be a little lively and I also remember that the softer beer lines might get pinched somewhere in the system and create a foamy pour but this newer line won't really do that. How old is the beer line you're using?

#11 djinkc

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 04:18 AM

............How old is the beer line you're using?

 

Maybe a year - hasn't been that long


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#12 the_stain

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:49 AM

I'm in a similar boat right now. When I hooked up my taps I only had 1/4" tubing so that's what I used... It's like 14' of tubing to get a decent pour, as far as foaming goes, but the problem is that's a lot of beer in the lines and it seems like the beer goes flat in the line, so I get half a mug of flat beer and half a mug of carbed beer on the first pour. Going to try and replace with 3/16" tubing this week... Assuming I can get it on the shanks.
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#13 drez77

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:52 AM

I'm in a similar boat right now. When I hooked up my taps I only had 1/4" tubing so that's what I used... It's like 14' of tubing to get a decent pour, as far as foaming goes, but the problem is that's a lot of beer in the lines and it seems like the beer goes flat in the line, so I get half a mug of flat beer and half a mug of carbed beer on the first pour. Going to try and replace with 3/16" tubing this week... Assuming I can get it on the shanks.

When I have not had a beer off a tap in a few days I always run off a few oz and throw it out to avoid that situation.  I also find the beer that is in the line usually tastes off.


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#14 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:00 AM

When I have not had a beer off a tap in a few days I always run off a few oz and throw it out to avoid that situation.  I also find the beer that is in the line usually tastes off.

I think that might be one of the upsides of this beer line I installed. It's much harder and stiffer (thank Jeebus I'm not in the PH right now) than the traditional beer line and I feel like the older stuff absorbed beer and stained easier and as a result, coughed up that absorbed beer or at least it's possible that the beer in the line could be impacted by the line itself. I'm using 10' per line of this Bev-Flex stuff and I'm only pushing the beer about 12" higher than the top of the keg.

#15 drez77

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:11 AM

I think that might be one of the upsides of this beer line I installed. It's much harder and stiffer (thank Jeebus I'm not in the PH right now) than the traditional beer line and I feel like the older stuff absorbed beer and stained easier and as a result, coughed up that absorbed beer or at least it's possible that the beer in the line could be impacted by the line itself. I'm using 10' per line of this Bev-Flex stuff and I'm only pushing the beer about 12" higher than the top of the keg.

Part if my issue is I need to install a fan to help cool some of the line.  it exits the freezer and goes to an insulated box where it goes through the wall.  That section between the freezer and box will be at cellar temp if nothing is pouring.  I tried that stuff you have an it was a PITA.  I now use it for transfer hose from fermenter to keg.  The biggest issue was the shanks I have are barb and not FFL so I had to push it over. PITA for me.


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#16 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:48 AM

Part if my issue is I need to install a fan to help cool some of the line.  it exits the freezer and goes to an insulated box where it goes through the wall.  That section between the freezer and box will be at cellar temp if nothing is pouring.  I tried that stuff you have an it was a PITA.  I now use it for transfer hose from fermenter to keg.  The biggest issue was the shanks I have are barb and not FFL so I had to push it over. PITA for me.

Oh, believe me... I hate this stuff. It is so rigid that it barely fits in the fridge. I had to wind it in a ring and then zip-tie it together just to manage it. Every time a keg blows and I open the door of one of the draft fridges, I mutter some expletive as soon as I see that satanic beer line. But... my faucets are pouring beautifully and if these lines stay cleaner longer, I'm okay with it.

#17 the_stain

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:34 AM

When I have not had a beer off a tap in a few days I always run off a few oz and throw it out to avoid that situation. I also find the beer that is in the line usually tastes off.


I am currently limiting myself to one a day, and it's around 6 ounces in the lines I think, so I'd be wasting a lot if I did that...
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#18 djinkc

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:37 AM

This isn't a few ounces of foam.  More like 30


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#19 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:49 AM

This isn't a few ounces of foam.  More like 30

Ugh. I can't imagine what could be causing that. Your lines are relatively new and the length is okay. Everything used to work well and now it doesn't so it's got to be something system-wide that would impact each faucet. Does it seem like the beer is really SHOOTING out or do you get a slow pour of foam? Could lines that are too cold cause this? I've had my beer lines get so close to the fridge capillaries that the line freezes and gets a bit foamy. But not that foamy.

#20 gnef

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:39 PM

Do you keep spare equipment on hand?

 

What I do when things like this pop up, is start replacing things one at a time to try to isolate the issue. If you have another regulator and CO2 tank, give that a try. If you have more beerline, try replacing one line. If you have a spare faucet, replace one and give it a try. If you have a spare quick disconnect, try replacing that, etc.

 

For each piece of hardware that is involved, try replacing it one at a time to figure things out. You may need to even check your poppets, dip tubes, etc.

 

I changed out my tubing to the same bev seal ultra 235 tubing that they are talking about. I also upgraded just about everything to John Guest fittings, so connecting and disconnecting anything related to tubing is really easy now. I have these fittings on my disconnects, my shanks, my regulators, manifolds, etc. This tubing is great, and I consider it a lifetime tubing if I do my part in handling it well and cleaning it regularly (though, it has been over a year since I've installed it, and I haven't cleaned it since then).


Edited by gnef, 13 June 2017 - 07:39 PM.

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