12 replies to this topic

[Seven]

I just received the results of my latest water sample from Ward Labs. The sample was drawn straight from the well, i.e. it was not subjected to any form of filtering, softening, ph adjustment, etc. I previously submitted a sample to them of my treated water...those results are below as well. I was initially under the impression that the source of the orange staining in the toilets and sinks was iron but I think I need to revisit that idea and share these results with my water softener company. Is this water suitable for AG brewing?

 

Untreated

ph     6.6

TDS  107

Sodium  4

Potassium <1

Calcium 21

Magnesium 8

Total hardness 86

Nitrate 1.3 (SAFE)

Sulfate 3

Chloride 6

Carbonate <1.0

Bicarb 76

Total Alkalinity 62

Total Phosphorus 0.01

Total iron <0.01

 

Treated (softened, ph buffered, particle filter)

ph   7.3

TDS  177

Sodium 78

Potassium <1

Calcium 0

Magnesium <1

Total hardness <1

Nitrate 3.8 (SAFE)

Sulfate 2

Chloride 9

Carbonate <1.0

Bicarb 165

Total alkalinity 135

Total Phosphorus 0.08

Total iron 0.03

 

I have the ability to bypass either the ph buffer or the softener or both. If I draw the water from inside the house, it will pass through a 1 micron (.1 micron?) filter. I can't bypass the filter in the house and I don't think that I'd want to anyway. The issue with bypassing is that I risk not clearing the system sufficiently and getting partially softened water with a lot of sodium. I would REALLY like to use water from in the house (vs. an outside spigot) since I can heat it to 140F with my tankless heater pretty quickly, significantly speeding up the brewing process.

 

Thanks for looking!

[denny]

Untreated looks much better than treated

[HVB]

I agree with Denny, your untreated water looks fine.  I would filter it and use that.  Take a  look at Bru'n Water , plug your numbers in and start playing around with gypsum, calcium chloride and lactic acid till you are close to the desired profile and pH you want.

[Big Nake]

Agreed. Filtered untreated is actually very good water. If you're scratching your head over what to do with it or how calcium, magnesium, sulfate, chloride, sulfate and bicarb impact your brewing, let us know. We covered this in another recent water thread and I think I laid out the approach that I might take for raising calcium, how chloride and sulfate impact your water (and beer), using acid to neutralize bicarb and lower pH, etc.

[Seven]

Thanks, guys! I'll take a closer look at Bru'n Water. I've played around with it in the past but it the U/I didn't seem very intuitive to me at the time. I just started brewing again after a 10+ year absence but never brewed with well water before. I used to use Philly city water which seemed ok with the exception of some chlorine. I brewed an oatmeal stout a couple weeks back and everything seemed to come out ok...efficiency was good (although I think I screwed up my volumes) but I've not kegged and carbonated it at this point.

 

What styles would be most appropriate for this water, untreated? A quick look at the water profiles in Bru'n Water seems to indicate that I'm close to Achouffe's water. I plan on making a hoppy mild or lite-ish APA soon...will post for recipe help shortly!

[HVB]

httpss://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMTA_VmqhbQ

 

may be an older version but worth a watch to at least see how some use it.

Edited by drez77, 11 April 2017 - 11:49 AM.

[Big Nake]

What styles would be most appropriate for this water, untreated? A quick look at the water profiles in Bru'n Water seems to indicate that I'm close to Achouffe's water. I plan on making a hoppy mild or lite-ish APA soon...will post for recipe help shortly!

This is soft water. You could make helles, dunkel, Vienna, festbier, etc. Your calcium (21) is low. The sulfate and chloride are also low. If the sulfate was expressed as SO4-S, then you multiply that number by 3 which would put your sulfate at a whopping 9ppm. By adding gypsum (calcium sulfate) or calcium chloride, you could get your chlorides, sulfates and calcium higher which would be good. Calcium in the 50-60ppm range is good for yeast health and clarity. I also found the BNW sheet to be a little foreign to my feeble brain which says more about my brain than BNW. I was eventually able to get a decent angle on it but eventually stopped using it. Many have said that when used properly, it gets them very close on mash pH.

[HVB]

This is soft water. You could make helles, dunkel, Vienna, festbier, etc. Your calcium (21) is low. The sulfate and chloride are also low. If the sulfate was expressed as SO4-S, then you multiply that number by 3 which would put your sulfate at a whopping 9ppm. By adding gypsum (calcium sulfate) or calcium chloride, you could get your chlorides, sulfates and calcium higher which would be good. Calcium in the 50-60ppm range is good for yeast health and clarity. I also found the BNW sheet to be a little foreign to my feeble brain which says more about my brain than BNW. I was eventually able to get a decent angle on it but eventually stopped using it. Many have said that when used properly, it gets them very close on mash pH.

What do you use now?

[Big Nake]

What do you use now?

Nothing. I keep good notes on all of the beers I make. I check the notes to see if what I did worked or needed adjustment once the mash started. I do print out an EZ_WATER sheet that just tells me what I plan to add (1g CaCl, 2g CaSO4, etc) so that I know for next time. I make tasting notes too so I might see that the beer was too soft so maybe more gypsum next time, etc. Once I got everything into the zip code, BNW was just not necessary anymore. But as a tool to understand how to modify water and get what you want in your beer... it's helpful and I silently thank Martin every time I brew for helping us mortals make sense of some of this.

[HVB]

Nothing. I keep good notes on all of the beers I make. I check the notes to see if what I did worked or needed adjustment once the mash started. I do print out an EZ_WATER sheet that just tells me what I plan to add (1g CaCl, 2g CaSO4, etc) so that I know for next time. I make tasting notes too so I might see that the beer was too soft so maybe more gypsum next time, etc. Once I got everything into the zip code, BNW was just not necessary anymore. But as a tool to understand how to modify water and get what you want in your beer... it's helpful and I silently thank Martin every time I brew for helping us mortals make sense of some of this.

Oh .. okay. 

 

I still enter ever beer and make adjustments each time. 

[positiveContact]

Oh .. okay. 

 

I still enter ever beer and make adjustments each time. 

 

same here.  if I made the same beers I could just look back at notes but many beers are tweaked a little.

[HVB]

same here.  if I made the same beers I could just look back at notes but many beers are tweaked a little.

If I am doing Waterpark ( My Chinook/Citra beer) I will go off the last version but most of the time I make some kind of grain tweak. 

[Big Nake]

There are times when I make something new where I have to envision things a little differently (like how much CaCl or CaSO4 I'm going to use) but I seem to have the mash pH tuned into pretty nicely on my system. I go strictly off the last version especially if everything went smoothly in terms of mash pH and if the beer came out really well. If I had to make a small adjustment last time, I make that adjustment on the next beer as a part of the prep and eventually all of my "last versions" become the final version of the recipe. The same recipe may differ from batch to batch just based on the fact that it's a natural product but generally my goal is to get a beer where I want it and then be able to duplicate it.