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Czech Pale Lager


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#1 HVB

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:26 PM

Pick it apart please.  The areas I am not sure about are the hops additions and the water.  That is my water with nothing but Acid malt and lactic acid.  I liked to plan to get this done on Monday if I can get a starter going by then.
 
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#2 Big Nake

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:31 PM

I think it looks spot on. For grist I would do something very similar... pils, Vienna, carapils and/or carafoam and/or carahell. I would hop it identically and the water seems good for the style. On my cue, unleash hell!! :D

#3 HVB

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:34 PM

I think it looks spot on. For grist I would do something very similar... pils, Vienna, carapils and/or carafoam and/or carahell. I would hop it identically and the water seems good for the style. On my cue, unleash hell!! :D

Whoa .. Ken and I agreeing on a hop bill!  Did you just feel the Earth stop moving for a second?  I know I did :)



#4 Big Nake

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:39 PM

Whoa .. Ken and I agreeing on a hop bill!  Did you just feel the Earth stop moving for a second?  I know I did :)

There was a small tremor here. :P Also, the 2278 makes a great Czech beer. I know I've mentioned this before but it drops like a rock so you will have a clear beer too. Cheers.

#5 HVB

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:40 PM

There was a small tremor here. :P Also, the 2278 makes a great Czech beer. I know I've mentioned this before but it drops like a rock so you will have a clear beer too. Cheers.

I am really looking forward to this beer!



#6 Big Nake

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:08 PM

I make beers like this all the time with similar ingredients and different (but similar) yeast strains. I admit that I have backed off of Saaz hops lately only because I've had some not-so-good examples of them so I might use Hallertau, Hersbrucker or Tettnanger instead. I also think that the brand of pils and Vienna come into play... hopefully they're Euro brands like Best or Weyermann. The Barke Pils would be great here.

#7 Big Nake

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:25 PM

Some of these recent threads have me thinking of making a similar beer but using 25% distilled to lower the sulfate and bicarb. I typically mash with 5 gallons and sparge with 3 but I could go 4 "source" plus 1 distilled for mash and 2 "source" and 1 distilled for sparge. It could be interesting to see if there is much difference or if I notice any smoother character from it.

#8 HVB

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:20 PM

Franco- Belges Pilsen Malt is what I have. That is what I have always used but depending on how it goes I may sample some other maltsters. I really have not used a lot of saaz over the years but I have sterling and Hallertau also in stock. I plan to try and keep this yeast going for 4 or more beers.

#9 Big Nake

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:43 PM

That pilsner malt will be fine and if you decide to pivot at some point, ask Chils for a suggestion. I think that if I were brewing with Saaz I would open the pack, smell them, grind up a pellet, take a big whiff and make sure that they're in good shape. There's no question that they're the hop to use here but I feel like they don't travel well or store well so the question becomes... would the beer be better with subpar Saaz or better hops that maybe were not the most authentic variety? I would use Hallertau, Tettnanger, Hersbrucker and possibly even Santiam, Liberty or Crystal if I thought that they would be fresher and better.

#10 HVB

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:06 PM

I plan to give them a test prior to use, fingers crossed that they are perfect.

#11 Steve Urquell

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:29 PM

I'd do more hops in the 15/5time. Prolly 1.5/1.5 oz 15/5 and drop wp to 1.5. I dont get the resiny character I want with small midboil hops.

I almost started a thread about tasting your raw ingredients as I am extremely particular about my malt character. It should have more sweetness than huskiness. Mushroomy flavored malt will not make a great beer. Grape nuts, honey, bread are what I look for.

On the hops you can use my bottle hop bag method to make sure they are good. Should give nice spicy herbal flavor after being added to cold beer and placed back in the fridge after 3-4 days.

I should have learned to trust my tastebuds on raw ingredients long ago. My lame duck noble pellets left lame duck flavor when added as bottle hops. Fresh saaz leaf popped after a few days in the bottle.

#12 HVB

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:38 PM

I'd do more hops in the 15/5time. Prolly 1.5/1.5 oz 15/5 and drop wp to 1.5. I dont get the resiny character I want with small midboil hops.

I almost started a thread about tasting your raw ingredients as I am extremely particular about my malt character. It should have more sweetness than huskiness. Mushroomy flavored malt will not make a great beer. Grape nuts, honey, bread are what I look for.

On the hops you can use my bottle hop bag method to make sure they are good. Should give nice spicy herbal flavor after being added to cold beer and placed back in the fridge after 3-4 days.

I should have learned to trust my tastebuds on raw ingredients long ago. My lame duck noble pellets left lame duck flavor when added as bottle hops. Fresh saaz leaf popped after a few days in the bottle.


Thanks, that is helpful. I am really in the dark with regards to hopping these beers. Any thoughts on the water?

#13 Steve Urquell

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:41 PM

Thanks, that is helpful. I am really in the dark with regards to hopping these beers. Any thoughts on the water?


I just noticed it and was about to add. Bump the calcium up to 50ppm using calcium chloride. It will help lower mash pH slightly which I shoot for ~5.2-5.3. The rest looks good.

#14 Steve Urquell

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 06:28 AM

Drez, I feel like I',m picking you to death but I noticed your OG is a little low for a standard Světlý Ležák. You should be 11-12.5 plato if shooting for something along the lines of Pils Urquell. Their low gravity light beer is called Světlé Výčepní and is 8-10 plato.

 

Here's some good info on Světlý Ležák.

 

"4.4 - 5% (11-12.5° Plato)"

"The classic Czech pale lager style. The name means the same as "Helles Lagerbier" in German. Individual beers vary greatly, from sweetish and malty (like Pilsner Urquell) to dry and hoppy (Budvar). One thing they all have in common is being heavily hopped with good quality aroma hops (such as Saaz). Beers in this style should be lagered for 2-3 months before sale."

httpss://www.europeanbeerguide.net/czecintr.htm



#15 Big Nake

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 07:20 AM

They make different versions of the same beer, right? I remember being on the train from Vienna to Prague and sitting in the bar car with my wife. They had bottles of Gambrinus that were 10P (I think)... what is that, only 4% or so? Or maybe it was 12P. Not sure but the beer was delicious as was all of the others we tried... Pilsner Urquell, Staropramen, Budvar, some dark lagers they had at U Vejvodu and U Fleku and even the beers we had at a craft brewery (U Tri Ruzi) which featured a Vienna Lager.

#16 Steve Urquell

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 08:26 AM

They make different versions of the same beer, right? I remember being on the train from Vienna to Prague and sitting in the bar car with my wife. They had bottles of Gambrinus that were 10P (I think)... what is that, only 4% or so? Or maybe it was 12P. Not sure but the beer was delicious as was all of the others we tried... Pilsner Urquell, Staropramen, Budvar, some dark lagers they had at U Vejvodu and U Fleku and even the beers we had at a craft brewery (U Tri Ruzi) which featured a Vienna Lager.


Oh yeah they are all simply called "light" (colored) beer with different gravities. Svetly just means light. If he is going to leave it at low gravity I'd ease up on the hops a bit to 1/1/1 oz.

#17 positiveContact

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 08:32 AM

mmmmm - beer.



#18 HVB

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 03:47 PM

Looks like I have some reading to do here. Been off cleaning the garage most of the day so I have not caught up. I did realize that I made a miscalculation on my pils inventory and only have about 5 pounds. Looks like I will be heading to pick a sack up this week so this beer is getting pushed off one week. Guess that gives time for some changes if needed.

#19 HVB

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 06:49 AM

So, I had to get more pils and all my LHBS had for Continental was Avangard.  to bump up the OG a little I added another pound of Vienna so my OG is now 1.048.  I will also adjust the hops to 1.5 oz for 15/5/WP.  Hope, fingers crossed, to get this one going this weekend. 

Oh - I will also take the advice from Chils and add some CaCl.  3ML brings my Ca to 53 and my Cl to 85 while dropping my pH to 5.35.



#20 Big Nake

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 06:53 AM

So, I had to get more pils and all my LHBS had for Continental was Avangard.  to bump up the OG a little I added another pound of Vienna so my OG is now 1.048.  I will also adjust the hops to 1.5 oz for 15/5/WP.  Hope, fingers crossed, to get this one going this weekend. 
Oh - I will also take the advice from Chils and add some CaCl.  3ML brings my Ca to 53 and my Cl to 85 while dropping my pH to 5.35.

3ml? Or 3 grams?

When you have these beers fresh, they are not spiky-harsh with any kind of sulfate character. They're very smooth and any crispness comes from hops so the addition of CaCl to push the beer into that smooth, round area is a good idea, IMO.


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