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New dry lager yeast MJ M76 Bavarian lager [with a lot of clarifier talk!]


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#61 Steve Urquell

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:34 PM

Ken, MJs recommendations are shite. Disregard anything they say WRT pitching rate, sedimentation etc. They are low on cell count. I won't pitch MJ yeast w/o a starter but 2 packs might be OK. I would assume 2 packs of MJ= 1 pack of Fermentis. Expect a long lag time.


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#62 ER Pemberton

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:47 PM

Ambient cellar temp, it comes from the dh /brite tank. I would say most of of the year that is in the 60's.

Okay, that's a plus. The 10g tub of water on the floor of my beer bunker (on cement floor) stays around 65° this time of year even without me trying to keep it cold with frozen water bottles. So that means this pils was in that same temp range. I'm going to start carbing tomorrow and I'll tap a sample (or two) on Monday to see how it tastes and to check the clarity.

Ken, MJs recommendations are shite. Disregard anything they say WRT pitching rate, sedimentation etc. They are low on cell count. I won't pitch MJ yeast w/o a starter but 2 packs might be OK. I would assume 2 packs of MJ= 1 pack of Fermentis. Expect a long lag time.

I knew that was coming. I found A LOT of people online who had commented about slow starts with the MJ's yeast. That said, if I were to use 2 packs, would you suggest I "sprinkle" or rehydrate and pitch "the cream"? I know you might also say that I should draflauklqkljeijlkjsseun but give me a choice between the two options I mentioned. One pack of S-189 sprinkled worked perfectly but I don't expect to get that lucky here.

#63 Steve Urquell

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:18 PM

Okay, that's a plus. The 10g tub of water on the floor of my beer bunker (on cement floor) stays around 65° this time of year even without me trying to keep it cold with frozen water bottles. So that means this pils was in that same temp range. I'm going to start carbing tomorrow and I'll tap a sample (or two) on Monday to see how it tastes and to check the clarity.

I knew that was coming. I found A LOT of people online who had commented about slow starts with the MJ's yeast. That said, if I were to use 2 packs, would you suggest I "sprinkle" or rehydrate and pitch "the cream"? I know you might also say that I should draflauklqkljeijlkjsseun but give me a choice between the two options I mentioned. One pack of S-189 sprinkled worked perfectly but I don't expect to get that lucky here.

I rehydrate and pitch...

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into a drauflassen starter. Ha! :frank:

 

Seriously though, the only time I pitched MJ M84 w/o a starter it would not start. 2 rehydrated packs into 50F wort. I waited ~3 days then raised temp to 65F and it finally started. This last pack I pitched into a 1 gallon starter took 48hrs to start fermenting running on the stir plate sitting at 56F.


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#64 ER Pemberton

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 08:07 PM

I got a response from Mangrove Jack's about M76...

M76 Bavarian Lager yeast can be used in place of White labs WLP830 German Lager Yeast and Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager.


This really means nothing because I don't consider these two strains to be similar. I would have to use it to determine which of those two strains it was close to. 830 would be better for pilsnery beers while 2206 might be better for festbier, dunkel, Vienna, etc.

#65 Steve Urquell

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 05:13 AM

I got a response from Mangrove Jack's about M76...


This really means nothing because I don't consider these two strains to be similar. I would have to use it to determine which of those two strains it was close to. 830 would be better for pilsnery beers while 2206 might be better for festbier, dunkel, Vienna, etc.

Not surprised by that response at all. Kinda like asking the tour guide at AB which yeast strain they use.

Looking at MJs site on yeast flocc, they give this a 3 and M84 a 4 meaning that M76 floccs slower and less than M84. Oh boy.
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#66 ER Pemberton

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 05:59 AM

Not surprised by that response at all. Kinda like asking the tour guide at AB which yeast strain they use.

Looking at MJs site on yeast flocc, they give this a 3 and M84 a 4 meaning that M76 floccs slower and less than M84. Oh boy.

I'm going to use this yeast at some point when timing is not critical and I'll choose a style at that point (Chil's input is welcome on that) and I'm not going to have any preconceived notions about it. If the yeast makes decent beer then I'll continue with it and try to make a connection as to what yeast it is (or close to) after I sample it. If the yeast is a PITA, doesn't start, doesn't clear or just doesn't have a good character then I'll be done with it. When you suggested S-189 I was skeptical but then I tasted the beers and I had new faith in dry lager yeast. I'll go into this with high hopes but may end up being skeptical again.

#67 ER Pemberton

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:06 AM

On the clarifier thing: I had a bunch of people over for FD yesterday and 7 people were drinking from the taps. The amber ale (where I transferred the beer to the keg, got it cold and then poured the clarifier into the keg and carbed) was the overwhelming choice all day. That beer is pretty clear even though I did not use the clarifier properly (no agitation). The Pilsner where I added the clarifier and racked on top is ending its carb cycle at 9am today. I plan to sample that beer with a cobra tap (I think the beer is 16 days old!) and I'll be interested in the clarity. Cheers.

#68 drez77

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:11 AM

One other note on the Biofine.  This is from a conversation I had on FB so I will just post it here.

 

"Biofine Clear is often used before filtration but is safe to use with no filtration. It's disadvantage in home brewing is if you rouse the keg it is less effective in clearing the beer the second time. For that reason it is not used in cask beers. Gelatin or Issenglass are preferred for kegs that will be moved."

 

For me I do not move my kegs after I have added it so it is no worry.  For that that do, you may want to move the clear to a "serving" keg.


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#69 ER Pemberton

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:44 AM

My kegs get moved from the on-deck fridge to the draft fridge and that's it.

#70 drez77

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:20 AM

My kegs get moved from the on-deck fridge to the draft fridge and that's it.

I have moved them and had them settle down nicely after a couple of days.  They got disturbed a bit and were cloudy but I wanted to add it to this thread to cover all the bases.


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#71 ER Pemberton

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:17 AM

For the record, I went back through that exbeeriment with gel vs. biofine and also through the comments. Turns out the test batches were dropped to 38-40° and then gel solution was added to one beer and biofine added to the other and the secondaries were swirled.

#72 drez77

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:31 AM

For the record, I went back through that exbeeriment with gel vs. biofine and also through the comments. Turns out the test batches were dropped to 38-40° and then gel solution was added to one beer and biofine added to the other and the secondaries were swirled.

That is cool, I am just providing my experience with it since i have been using it for well over a year with good results.


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#73 ER Pemberton

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:37 AM

That is cool, I am just providing my experience with it since i have been using it for well over a year with good results.

Yeah, I'm just thinking of how to best use it to fit my needs. When I check out this Pilsner tonight, my thinking may be swayed but I think the best idea for me would be to take the primary to be transferred (which is usually a plastic 6.5g bucket) and place it in my lager primary fridge (which is set to 48°) overnight and then transfer to keg with clarifier poured in first. I do have one wider primary that would not fit in the lager fridge (I only use it for ales) and the temp of that fridge is not really that cold but it would colder if that made any difference. The bottom line is that I would like my beers clear and the gel solution was doing a good job. This stuff I'm using would have to do a better job without much preparation for me to decide that it's better. More after I see this pilsner tonight.

#74 ER Pemberton

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:22 PM

I tapped a glass of the beer and glass one was really sludgy and I poured it out. Glass 2 was slightly clearer but still pretty cloudy. I'm drinking it. The flavor is good. This was a beer where I subbed out one gallon of source water with distilled just to see if I could detect any smoothness from the lower sulfate... I can. More after I tap another glass.

#75 Steve Urquell

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:16 PM

I'm going to use this yeast at some point when timing is not critical and I'll choose a style at that point (Chil's input is welcome on that) and I'm not going to have any preconceived notions about it. If the yeast makes decent beer then I'll continue with it and try to make a connection as to what yeast it is (or close to) after I sample it. If the yeast is a PITA, doesn't start, doesn't clear or just doesn't have a good character then I'll be done with it. When you suggested S-189 I was skeptical but then I tasted the beers and I had new faith in dry lager yeast. I'll go into this with high hopes but may end up being skeptical again.

I'm doing this one with it in a couple weeks. It's my standard German Pils recipe with Castle pils and Castle Pale Ale in place of Vienna. Still not sure what I'll use on the late hop addition. May be Hall Trad if I don't have any spalt. Oh, the carapils will be Carafoam instead.

 

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Edited by Steve Urquell, 19 June 2017 - 04:17 PM.

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#76 ER Pemberton

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:41 PM

That looks nice. If the M76 is similar to 830 then I would think it would come out better than if it were like 2206. It's not that I don't like 2206 but I wouldn't choose it for a beer like that. The part of the description where it says that it doesn't product the sulfur character sounds like it could be the dry version of 2206 (called BAVARIAN coincidentally). So we'll see once we brew with it. I just used 830 earlier in the year. I don't think I've used 2206 in awhile.

#77 Steve Urquell

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:49 PM

That looks nice. If the M76 is similar to 830 then I would think it would come out better than if it were like 2206. It's not that I don't like 2206 but I wouldn't choose it for a beer like that. The part of the description where it says that it doesn't product the sulfur character sounds like it could be the dry version of 2206 (called BAVARIAN coincidentally). So we'll see once we brew with it. I just used 830 earlier in the year. I don't think I've used 2206 in awhile.

I hope it is like 2206 after reading about its characteristics "rich, full-bodied, malty beers" per Wyeast.

I know the M84 has low attn--I think ~71% on everything I've used it in regardless of mash temps.

 

MJ says M84 has 72-76% attn

 

MJ says M 76 has 75-80% attn. Hoping it is a little low like M84.


Edited by Steve Urquell, 19 June 2017 - 04:51 PM.

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#78 ER Pemberton

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:26 PM

I tapped a glass of the beer and glass one was really sludgy and I poured it out. Glass 2 was slightly clearer but still pretty cloudy. I'm drinking it. The flavor is good. This was a beer where I subbed out one gallon of source water with distilled just to see if I could detect any smoothness from the lower sulfate... I can. More after I tap another glass.

A little more: Eventually I went on a bike ride and came back and tapped another glass of this. It was cloudy and I poured it out. I tapped another glass which looked better and I drank it. The other big thing about this beer is that it was my first 30m boil. The overall flavor of the beer is really very good so the 30m boil appears to be a good situation as far as I can tell. So it's my first 30m boil and first biofine beer. As far as the clarity goes, I'm in no rush to see this beer clear so I'm going to leave it alone for awhile. If a couple of weeks go by and I'm curious about it, I'll tap another couple of glasses. If it's not clear, it would be quite different than most beers I clear with a gel solution. Also, if it's not clear, I'll probably hit it with a gel solution.

#79 ER Pemberton

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:59 AM

This weekend I'll have another opportunity to fine a beer with this clarifier and I might as well try one more "different" thing. I have a Crystal Pale Ale that I made last weekend so this weekend will be about 2 weeks. I have a hoppy blonde planned. On Thursday I'll take the Crystal Pale Ale (which has been sitting on the floor the past few days) and stick it into the on-deck fridge... if it fits. That fridge is set to about 35°F. On brewday I'll add 1-2 tbsp. of the clarifier to the clean, sanitized and CO2-purged keg and rack the cold beer on top of it. That would be the third different strategy I have tried.


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