137 replies to this topic

[BrewerGeorge]

I like dry yeast because they're a BIG pitch.  

 

What would y'all think of WB-06 in this?  I don't think I've ever tasted it, but the description seems to be in the ballpark.

[Big Nake]

I like dry yeast because they're a BIG pitch.  
 
What would y'all think of WB-06 in this?  I don't think I've ever tasted it, but the description seems to be in the ballpark.

I think the WB-06 is similar to a Wyeast 3868 (if I have that number right) which is to produce a Bavarian Hefeweizen with the banana and clove notes. There's nothing wrong with that (ahem... yes there is but I digress) but it would push the beer away from Spotted Cow and more towards that cloudy hefeweizen style. If that sounds good to you, go for it.

[BrewerGeorge]

I might just make an extract APA to get my feet wet again and save the Cow for next time.

[Big Nake]

That's fine too. I think that a big piece of the SC puzzle is the 2565 yeast. You could make a kolsch or even a pale ale with 2565 (it's plenty neutral to use for that purpose) and then make the SC clone with the harvested 2565.

[MyaCullen]

I might just make an extract APA to get my feet wet again and save the Cow for next time.

sounds like a plan

I like dry yeast because they're a BIG pitch.  

 

What would y'all think of WB-06 in this?  I don't think I've ever tasted it, but the description seems to be in the ballpark.

it's very German Hefe, you'd be better of with US-05

[BrewerGeorge]

Ok, so now that the extract APA is in the keg, I'm ready to go back to this one.  Just placed the order for my 55% of Canadian Malting 2-row for all my base needs, and I've got a guy bringing me back a 12er of SC next week for comparison purposes. The Wy 2565 is in the same order.

 

I'll finalize the recipe before I pick up the stuff, but atm I'm thinking mostly 2-row plus 1/2 lb of Carapils and 1/4-1/3 lb of Gambrinus Honey, depending on the color.  1.045 OG, 15 IBUs of something.

[neddles]

If your trying to get close to the original I would recommend against the honey malt and add some malted wheat to lighten the 2-row flavor. If your going for something a little different then carry on. I would worry a little about any amount of honey malt and very low hopping rates in this type of beer tho. Maybe just me.

[HVB]

If your trying to get close to the original I would recommend against the honey malt and add some malted wheat to lighten the 2-row flavor. If your going for something a little different then carry on. I would worry a little about any amount of honey malt and very low hopping rates in this type of beer tho. Maybe just me.

I do not think personally I would go over 1-2oz of honey malt in this beer.

[BrewerGeorge]

The original definitely doesn't have wheat in it.  The label says it's 1516 compliant.  So I don't think a good place to start the clone would be with something we know isn't in there...

 

But I think you're right about the honey.  Now that I'm remembering more, I think it's more like a honeynut cheerios sort of flavor, right?

 

So maybe it IS just pale, dextrin and some 10L.  It's hard to judge with the cloudiness, but what color do you think it is? About a 4 srm?

 

ETA:  What temp do you think for the 2565?

[neddles]

Current law allows for wheat malt.

 

Yeah it has a pleasant malty/honey-ish character to it but definitely will bring some sweetness to the party.  To my tastes, honey malt character is non existent in Spotted Cow.

 

I would guess about 4 SRM as you say. A little 10L would get you there.

 

No idea on the 2565 temp. Haven't used it.

[Big Nake]

2565 has a low temp of (I believe...) 58°. The lower you go the less of that wine-like character you get from it and the more it's like 1056. Keep it in the low 60s to have a moderate amount of that character. I have used it in the high 50s and low 60s and it's very nice. I haven't gone higher than that so I can't comment on what happens with it's used warmer.

[BrewerGeorge]

Current law allows for wheat malt.

 

Yeah it has a pleasant malty/honey-ish character to it but definitely will bring some sweetness to the party.  To my tastes, honey malt character is non existent in Spotted Cow.

 

I would guess about 4 SRM as you say. A little 10L would get you there.

 

No idea on the 2565 temp. Haven't used it.

Since when?

[HVB]

 

In order to accommodate the co-existence of the two traditions, the 1919 Reinheitsgebot effectively became two laws; the old, restrictive one for lagers and a more lenient one for ales. The bifurcated “Reinheitsgebot” has caused quite a bit of confusion over the years. In the popular imagination, all German beer is made with only barley, hops, water and yeast. But an ale brewery making beer with wheat malt, coriander and salt is also Reinheitsgebot-compliant, thanks to the expanded rules.

https://allaboutbeer...reinheitsgebot/

 

 

Bavarian Reinheitsgebot did allow for wheat, but only later in the 1500s (not in 1516).

 

httpss://www.beersyndicate.com/blog/10-things-you-might-not-know-about-the-reinheitsgebot-beer-purity-law-of-1516/2/

 

I guess there is a difference between the German Reinheitsgebot and the Bavarian Reinheitsgebot?  Just follow the Bavarian!

Edited by drez77, 29 August 2017 - 07:05 AM.

[BrewerGeorge]

Well, I'm not making a lager anyway so even the German would let me use some wheat.

 

But the question is: do you really think there's wheat in there?  I'm going to the store to pick up the bag of grain, and the yeast tonight.  If I need to add a little bag of specialties, I need to settle on them in the next hour or so.

 

If there is wheat, I wouldn't think it's anywhere near half because it doesn't taste too much like malted wheat.  I would think it's softer like flaked wheat but that's definitely not allowed (right?)

 

How's this sound?

9-1/2 lb of 2-row

1 lb of malted white wheat

6 oz of Breiss 10L

 

At typical efficiency for me that should be 1.048, and if the 2565 only attenuates 75% on average, I should end up at 1.012 for an abv of 4.8% - right in line with the published ABV.  With 12 points left, that's probably where the sweetness and body comes from so I don't think the carapils is necessary.

 

About 15 IBUs (half an ounce or so) of magnum pellets at 15 minutes is all I'm thinking for the hops.

[neddles]

Well, I'm not making a lager anyway so even the German would let me use some wheat.

 

But the question is: do you really think there's wheat in there?  I'm going to the store to pick up the bag of grain, and the yeast tonight.  If I need to add a little bag of specialties, I need to settle on them in the next hour or so.

 

If there is wheat, I wouldn't think it's anywhere near half because it doesn't taste too much like malted wheat.  I would think it's softer like flaked wheat but that's definitely not allowed (right?)

 

How's this sound?

9-1/2 lb of 2-row

1 lb of malted white wheat

6 oz of Breiss 10L

 

At typical efficiency for me that should be 1.048, and if the 2565 only attenuates 75% on average, I should end up at 1.012 for an abv of 4.8% - right in line with the published ABV.  With 12 points left, that's probably where the sweetness and body comes from so I don't think the carapils is necessary.

 

About 15 IBUs (half an ounce or so) of magnum pellets at 15 minutes is all I'm thinking for the hops.

My bet is the sweetness comes from the very low hopping rate combined with the fruity nature of the yeast. I can tell you that Moon Man and Two Women both finish at about 1.008-9. There is definitely some late noble-ish character to my palate but roll with it how you want to. The 2-row character, to me is also very very low. That supports the idea that there could be a touch more wheat in there. 

[neddles]

For science.

 

I just degassed a hydro sample worth of SC and made sure it was 60F. Came out at 1.008 on my hydrometer.

[BrewerGeorge]

Well, traffic and the LHBS 6 o'clock close time on Tuesdays conspired to prevent me from going to the store yesterday, so I've got one more day to finalize the first try.

 

What do you think about 2 lbs of white wheat, then?

 

As for the hops, the problem with "something noble" is that they're low enough AA that a half ounce at 15 minutes and another half ounce at 5 minutes only gets me to the 10-12 IBU range.  I don't really want to risk any of my old hops in this clone trial in case they introduce an off flavor that throws off the evaluation, so I'm buying new.  I guess I could go with half an ounce of magnum at 15 and half of liberty at 0.

[Big Nake]

I see no problem using the wheat. Get the new hops and try to find one of the "American noble" varieties we discussed. Liberty would be great. If the AA% is too low all the way around then just adjust. Use 3/4 oz at 15 and 5 or whatever. SC is not hoppy but you have to use enough hops to balance things out.

[neddles]

I see no problem using the wheat. Get the new hops and try to find one of the "American noble" varieties we discussed. Liberty would be great. If the AA% is too low all the way around then just adjust. Use 3/4 oz at 15 and 5 or whatever. SC is not hoppy but you have to use enough hops to balance things out.

Yeah what Ken said. Got some new hops and add what you want for late character and then adjust your 30 minute addition if you need another IBU or two. 2# of wheat would be great.

[BrewerGeorge]

Yeah what Ken said. Got some new hops and add what you want for late character and then adjust your 30 minute addition if you need another IBU or two. 2# of wheat would be great.

Wait, 30 minute addition?  You said 15 and 5 earlier with nothing at the beginning.