43 replies to this topic

[BrianBrewerKS]

See, if I hit the lottery, I wouldn't want to be forced to go to work at a restaurant every day.If I won the lottery, I'd build a kick-ass brewery at home, a great home bar, and I'd invite my friends over. A private, invitation-only brewpub.

I said I'd be the owner. I didn't say I'd be working there everyday. I mean, I'm talking I'd hit the major jackpot...so the brewpub would just be a 'fun' thing for me. I'd hire some good folks and pay them well. The place prolly wouldn't turn a profit, but I'd be so stinkin rich that I wouldn't care too much. It'd just be a place for me to hang...and drink...and brew...and cook when I felt like it.But yeah, the private, invitation-only brewpub would work too.

[strangebrewer]

Work sucking lately Odacrem? You know you can count on me for at least $1.87 and all the change I can find in your couch.

[djinkc]

I checked out this place during the weekend. Basically no food except for pulled pork - when it's gone that's it. And may drop it completely and just sell beer.https://www.hankiswiserbrewery.com/Sabco fermenters, MT and kettle. Cornies to serve. Aside from the remodel of a building I don't think a whole lot was spent....... Only open 3 nights a week... Small town, loyal customers. Damn fine beer too. Just one way to do it.......

[ANUSTART]

If I ever hit the lottery, there will be a brewpub with me as its owner.

This is my current plan for financing. I have to get smarter before I can come up with an alternative.

Work sucking lately Odacrem? You know you can count on me for at least $1.87 and all the change I can find in your couch.

Not much more than usual. The longer I work for the mega-super-conglomerate, the more I get jaded with the bureaucracy and corporate BS. I know that I don't want to be doing this (current job) in 5 to 10 years, but I may have to settle for it if I cant make something else happen. If I was able to cut out about 3 to 5 layers of management (probably 1/4th of what's between me and the CEO), I would be liking my job a hell of a lot more.If I count your $1.87... carry the one... please excuse my dear aunt sally... we're up to $2.87! Almost there!

[Genesee Ted]

I really think it depends on your market. Around here, there is not a whole lot of local craft brew. Out west.... If you have a good business plan and all the pegs have holes that match their shape, you will do well.

[DuncanDad]

I said I'd be the owner. I didn't say I'd be working there everyday. I mean, I'm talking I'd hit the major jackpot...so the brewpub would just be a 'fun' thing for me. I'd hire some good folks and pay them well. The place prolly wouldn't turn a profit, but I'd be so stinkin rich that I wouldn't care too much. It'd just be a place for me to hang...and drink...and brew...and cook when I felt like it.But yeah, the private, invitation-only brewpub would work too.

That place will suck you dry faster than you can say "spit".A restaurant with out the owner on site is asking for theft. I know of alot of bars and places that the owners built the business working 12-14 hours a day for a couple of years. Got the place up and running. Started thinking, "Hey, it's running great, I'll work fewer hours now". Next thing you know, they are loosing money hand over fist. It starts slowly with a free beer to the bartender's buddy. Then, a round for the table of the waitress's sister and her friends.Pretty soon, you have the cook stealing cases of beer out the back door and boxes of ground beef patties.By the time the owners figure out what is going on, they are $20,000 or more in the hole and just fired all the staff, (and their friends).I've seen it time and time again.

[BrianBrewerKS]

That place will suck you dry faster than you can say "spit".A restaurant with out the owner on site is asking for theft. I know of alot of bars and places that the owners built the business working 12-14 hours a day for a couple of years. Got the place up and running. Started thinking, "Hey, it's running great, I'll work fewer hours now". Next thing you know, they are loosing money hand over fist. It starts slowly with a free beer to the bartender's buddy. Then, a round for the table of the waitress's sister and her friends.Pretty soon, you have the cook stealing cases of beer out the back door and boxes of ground beef patties.By the time the owners figure out what is going on, they are $20,000 or more in the hole and just fired all the staff, (and their friends).I've seen it time and time again.

Dude, I won the lottery. $150 million after taxes. I can handle $20,000 walking out the door. And if I get tired of it, I'd just bulldoze it and make it into a bass pond.EDIT: Plus, I'd never seriously open a brewpub if I didn't plan on working at least 12 hour days. (more like 16 for the first few years) I've done the restaurant management thing before...worked my nuts just about off. I decided that the only way I'd do it again is if I was the guy keeping any profits.

Edited by BrianBrewerKS, 01 April 2009 - 07:34 AM.

[Lagerdemain]

It's no secret that most new businesses fail. 90% of them is a statistic I've seen bandied about. Businesses like restaurants, bars, breweries and brewpubs probably have a higher than average failure rate for a litany of reasons - not the least of which is they tend to attract neophytes who enjoy the product and consider themselves experts at creating the product but don't know anything about the business side of things, nor how to manage people.There, I said it. Managing people. Probably the hardest part of operating a business. It's what keeps small business owners awake at night. Because you CAN'T be at the business round the clock if it grows to any size. You have to hire others and trust them with pieces of the business. You have to manage their work, manage conflicting personalities and how your employees interact with your customers. You have to deal with various regulatory and tax factors involving the hiring and termination of employees - it goes on and on and on.

[DuncanDad]

It's no secret that most new businesses fail. 90% of them is a statistic I've seen bandied about. Businesses like restaurants, bars, breweries and brewpubs probably have a higher than average failure rate for a litany of reasons - not the least of which is they tend to attract neophytes who enjoy the product and consider themselves experts at creating the product but don't know anything about the business side of things, nor how to manage people.There, I said it. Managing people. Probably the hardest part of operating a business. It's what keeps small business owners awake at night. Because you CAN'T be at the business round the clock if it grows to any size. You have to hire others and trust them with pieces of the business. You have to manage their work, manage conflicting personalities and how your employees interact with your customers. You have to deal with various regulatory and tax factors involving the hiring and termination of employees - it goes on and on and on.

That is the main reason I've never had employees in my business. It would take the "fun" out of my job.That, and, I don't want to be responsible for their income. I've had to lay off probably 100 or so people during my working life. It sucks to let someone go due to no fault of their own. I've been laid off about 6 times myself so, being on either side of the desk durning that conversation sucks for everyone.

[stellarbrew]

Just like many homebrewers, I have harbored a secret fantasy of one day casting aside my day job, and the drudgeries of the corporate world, to start-up a microbrewery or a brew pub. One part of me doesn’t want to let go of that romantic notion, but one part of me is persuaded by the very valid points people have made on this thread. I’m now thinking at this moment that turning a beloved hobby into a business, with all its demands, pitfalls, cost-risks, and dirty details would kill any joy I have for brewing. I think that if I won the lottery, I would build myself one hell of a home brewery that would allow me to enjoy the hobby to the ultimate extent. But if I was rich from the lottery, I would have no need to risk sullying my love of brewing by trying to turn it into a business. I think those who would enjoy building a brewing business are those who enjoy building a business, not necessarily those who enjoy brewing.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I think it is doable, and there are common mistakes that people make, especially with restaurants. Scott Adams (Dilbert writer) started a restaurant and is now mainly hands off. The way he did it was to make each person from the dishwasher to the managers self policing. They have free creative reign on how it should be run, so even a waitress could come up with an idea that sells more food or beer, if it fails they try something else, no biggie. Here is the article.Point is that there are ways to be hands off and still be successful.That being said, I would own two breweries. One at my house would be my private stock, the other would be run by professionals as my business venture. Hands off though.

[Seagis]

I've worked in restaurants before, and it's tough work, especially when someone else's name is in the lower right-hand corner of your paycheck. I also co-own a catering company, however, and that brings me enormous satisfaction. It's not my primary source of income, but it's really nice to bring in a grand or two for about 12-16 hours of work every so often.That said, if I were to win this theoretical lottery, I'd build a scaled down microbrewery at my house. Not for the sake of distribution, but just to come as close as possible to commercial brewery conditions as I could when I make my own beer. I just think it would be nice. I'd even pay Basser two month's salary to fly in and work with me for a month.

[BrianBrewerKS]

I think those who would enjoy building a brewing business are those who enjoy building a business, not necessarily those who enjoy brewing.

I think that's a good point. I found the business of restaurants interesting enough to study it in college...and even though I'm not directly employed in the restaurant business, I still find it interesting. If I ever decided to get back in the industry, I'd want it to be as an owner, and the biggest reason for the move would be the challenge of running my own business. I'd be as interested in the food part of it as I would be the beer part of it.

[japh]

On the other hand, I know the family that owns a very successful bar in downtown Portland. If they wanted to help me through the red tape, and were willing to finance the equipment, so that they could be the exclusive location of a new local brew - I'd be all over that.

[BrianBrewerKS]

I checked out this place during the weekend. Basically no food except for pulled pork - when it's gone that's it. And may drop it completely and just sell beer.https://www.hankiswiserbrewery.com/Sabco fermenters, MT and kettle. Cornies to serve. Aside from the remodel of a building I don't think a whole lot was spent....... Only open 3 nights a week... Small town, loyal customers. Damn fine beer too. Just one way to do it.......

Yep, this is the guy that I was talking about back on page 1 of this thread. He and his son run it if I'm not mistaken...the father is retired. I keep saying I'm gonna make it over to Cheney to check it out but I haven't yet. I did sample his beer a couple years back at the midwest BeerFest though.They are proof that the small scale brewpub can work..and it can work 'on-the-cheap'. You just have to be in the right market and you can't expect to get rich. I'm betting they don't make a ton of money off that place, but they make enough to keep it open!

[japh]

Dude, I won the lottery. $150 million after taxes. I can handle $20,000 walking out the door. And if I get tired of it, I'd just bulldoze it and make it into a bass pond.

You know for $150 million after taxes (and taking it as a lump sum), you're talking about a jackpot number in the vicinity of $600 million.

[JoshLikesBeer]

Just like many homebrewers, I have harbored a secret fantasy of one day casting aside my day job, and the drudgeries of the corporate world, to start-up a microbrewery or a brew pub. One part of me doesn’t want to let go of that romantic notion, but one part of me is persuaded by the very valid points people have made on this thread. I’m now thinking at this moment that turning a beloved hobby into a business, with all its demands, pitfalls, cost-risks, and dirty details would kill any joy I have for brewing.

I feel the same way. If only all there were to it were just brewing whatever I want, selling it to local bars, restaurants, and stores, and paying my taxes, rather than having to worry about licensing, codes, inspections, insurance, liability, lawyers, accountants, payroll, and an alphabet soup full of local, state, and federal agencies.

I think those who would enjoy building a brewing business are those who enjoy building a business, not necessarily those who enjoy brewing.

I just finished reading "Beer School" by the folks who founded Brooklyn Brewery. That was a partnership between one guy who enjoys building a business and another guy who enjoys brewing. That seems like a good angle.I have a friend who owns a restaurant / sports bar. He keeps wanting to know when he can sell some of my beer. He has eight tap handles and he's willing to give me one of them. However, I know we can both get into serious trouble if I'm not jumping through all the required hoops, and those hoops aren't worth jumping through if I'm only selling (optimistically) two or three cornies a week. Contract brewing seems like it might be a good way to go, but while I haven't run the numbers yet, I'm almost positive I'll need to have more than one customer lined up before I get started.On the other hand, he enjoys running a restaurant and I enjoy brewing, so one possibility is that the two of us could partner together to start a brewpub. I'm far from being ready to make a move like that though. I've only been homebrewing for a year, and I have no experience working with commercial scale brewing equipment. So this idea is just a pipe dream for now.

[BrianBrewerKS]

You know for $150 million after taxes (and taking it as a lump sum), you're talking about a jackpot number in the vicinity of $600 million.

Yeah, so?

[japh]

Yeah, so?

Just sayin' if you're going to do a if-I-win-the lottery-crazy-dream - keep it to $50 million :DOn the topic, I seem to remember on the other board there was a link to a group brewing in Seattle that was selling kegs to bars. It was a pretty simple 2-4bbl system, IIRC.

[ChefLamont]

There was a brewery that closed here in ATL a few years back. They interviewed the owner in the paper and he said that like most failed businesses he was undercapitalized in the beginning. I think I remember him saying he started with $750K and that it was not nearly enough that a minimum would be around $1-1.5M