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Elder Pliny


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#1 CoastieSteve

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 02:20 PM

The July/August issue of Zymurgy has the recipe. It is hopped to high heaven, but otherwise a remarkably simple recipe. Anybody going to give it a shot?

#2 ncbeerbrewer

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 04:00 PM

Post up the recipe please. Not a Zymurgy subscriber but would like to see what it looks like. Thanks!!

#3 CoastieSteve

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 04:12 PM

Post up the recipe please. Not a Zymurgy subscriber but would like to see what it looks like. Thanks!!

According to Zymurgy, this is their 2009 top ranked beer (out of 1,034 beers)

The Russian River Pliny the Elder by Vinnie Cilurzo (my hat is off to this guy)

11.0 lb Two Row
0.5 lb Crystal 45
0.5 lb Carapils
0.4 lb Corn Sugar (dextrose)
3.50 oz. Columbus 14.9 AA 90 min.
0.75 oz. Columbus 14.9 AA 45 min.
1.00 oz. Simcoe 12.3 AA 30 min.
1.00 oz. Centennial 8.00 AA 0 min.
2.50 oz. Simcoe 12.3 AA 0 min.
1.00 oz. Columbus 14.9 AA Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
1.00 oz. Centennial 8.00 AA Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
1.00 oz. Simcoe 12.3 AA Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
0.25 oz. Columbus 14.9 AA Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
0.25 oz. Centennial 8.00 AA Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
0.25 oz. Simcoe 12.3 AA Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)

White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast or
Wyeast 1056 American Ale Yeast

Note: Tomahawk/Zeus can be substituted for Columbus

OG: 1.070
FG: 1.011
IBU: 90-95
ABV: 8-8.5%
SRM: 7

Directions: Mash grains at 151-152 F for an hour or until starch conversion is complete. Mash out at 170 F and sparge. Collect 8 gallons of run off, stir in dextrose and bring to a boil. Add hops as indicated in the recipe. After a 90 min. boil, chill to 67 F until fermentation activity subsides, then rack to secondary. Add first set of dry hops on top of the racked beer and age 7 - 9 days then add second set. Age 5 more days then bottle or keg.

#4 djinkc

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 04:39 PM

There was a clone recipe in Zymurgy or BYO a while back. I brewed 10 gallons of it on 9/1/08 and still have a a gallon or so left. That recipe is very similar to the one Vinnie shared - nice guy - my wife visited with him at GABF last year.

Anyway the one I brewed had about double the amount of table sugar and only one dry hop schedule IIRC. Csbosox on the other board was kind enough to bring a bottle of the real deal over for a side by side a few months ago. I thought mine matched up fine although the flavor and especially aroma hops had faded due to age. Tough to plow though ten gallons of that stuff, but that's the way it rolls here.

I brewed it because my wife kept leaving the recipe out in convenient places for me to see - again and again.......... And I had most of the hops (pellet, foodsaver and frozen) from a big purchase in '07 before prices went crazy.

Anyway, one of the few times I followed a recipe almost to the letter. I made a few very minor hops substitutions and figured it wouldn't matter considering the hop bill. I would vote for brewing it, you can get damn close brewing it at home. Next round I'll do my own version, honestly I think a lot of hops were wasted - won't know until I try though

#5 ncbeerbrewer

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 04:51 PM

According to Zymurgy, this is their 2009 top ranked beer (out of 1,034 beers)

The Russian River Pliny the Elder by Vinnie Cilurzo (my hat is off to this guy)

11.0 lb Two Row
0.5 lb Crystal 45
0.5 lb Carapils
0.4 lb Corn Sugar (dextrose)
3.50 oz. Columbus 14.9 AA 90 min.
0.75 oz. Columbus 14.9 AA 45 min.
1.00 oz. Simcoe 12.3 AA 30 min.
1.00 oz. Centennial 8.00 AA 0 min.
2.50 oz. Simcoe 12.3 AA 0 min.
1.00 oz. Columbus 14.9 AA Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
1.00 oz. Centennial 8.00 AA Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
1.00 oz. Simcoe 12.3 AA Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
0.25 oz. Columbus 14.9 AA Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
0.25 oz. Centennial 8.00 AA Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
0.25 oz. Simcoe 12.3 AA Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)

White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast or
Wyeast 1056 American Ale Yeast

Note: Tomahawk/Zeus can be substituted for Columbus

OG: 1.070
FG: 1.011
IBU: 90-95
ABV: 8-8.5%
SRM: 7

Directions: Mash grains at 151-152 F for an hour or until starch conversion is complete. Mash out at 170 F and sparge. Collect 8 gallons of run off, stir in dextrose and bring to a boil. Add hops as indicated in the recipe. After a 90 min. boil, chill to 67 F until fermentation activity subsides, then rack to secondary. Add first set of dry hops on top of the racked beer and age 7 - 9 days then add second set. Age 5 more days then bottle or keg.


Thanks Coastie. I got all the ingredients on hand here too hops and malt. Hmm I might need to brew an IIPA soon too as I have not IPA's around as well. I am reading the Brew Like A Monk Book and they talk about RR Brewing and Vinnie I remember they said he uses Wyeast 1056 for all of his beer except the Belgians he brews. Boy I tell ya I sure could go for a bottle of this the real deal. Never seen it around here in NC before though. Can anyone score a bottle in their area?

#6 Pseudolus

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 05:45 PM

At NHC I heard Vinnie chatting about this recipe. Now that hop extracts are available in homebrew-friendly unit sizes he was suggesting using some of that for the early hop additions. Idea was to cut down on the amount of vegetable matter in the kettle, and on the amount of wort lost to absorption.

(Hmm. MoreBeer had the stuff, but apparently not anymore.)

#7 aquahijo

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 05:49 PM

Can anyone score a bottle in their area?


I think badogg has it locally in his area.

#8 ncbeerbrewer

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 07:57 PM

I think badogg has it locally in his area.


Paging Badogg :angry: :cheers:

#9 badogg

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 10:55 PM

Sorry, but away for a couple of days.

heh, I do live 10 minutes from the brewpub. :angry:

Vinnie is a great guy and is a HUGE supporter of the homebrew community. In January I think it was, my homebrew club had its monthly meeting at their new production facility in Santa Rosa. He had his pub send over about 20 of their pizza's, and he had 4 taps going with pliny, blind pig, his Saison, and something else I can't recall. Then when he got to the part of the tour where he was showing us his oak barrels where he was ageing his Consecration and Damnation 23, he had one of his brewers popping corks on both of those and was pouring us pints of those. It was AWESOME.

#10 zymot

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 11:15 PM

I think badogg has it locally in his area.

I have had it on tap and in the bottle.

IMO it is too harsh in the bitterness department. Not too bitter, but the character of the bitterness was too sharp or aggressive. For somewhat of a reference, I will say the same thing (but to a lesser degree) about SN Torpedo. (sorry basser) Just too much attacking almost buring bitterness in these beers. I assume it is from the high AA hops used.

Do not get me wrong, I like IPAs very much. I have made the JPA and an Imperial JPA. A local pub has a IPA festival that I go to and love the beers. Today I brewed an doubler American IPA, using 10 oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch. So I am not a hop wuss.

Pliny is a very popular beer and many people disagree with me. I like bitter flavor, however, Pliny has a bitter bite I do not enjoy.

If you want to try the ultimate in bitterness, this would be it.

There is a Pliny clone in Jamilz's recipe book. His has warrior & chinook for the 90 minute additions. The recipe above appears to substitute columbus. Perhaps a concession to the reality of hops varieties available to home brewers? I think of columbus as a less agressive hop than warrior and chinook, I would expect the zymurgy recipe to have less of a bite. It will still be be plenty bitter.

zymot

#11 passlaku

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 05:54 AM

At NHC I heard Vinnie chatting about this recipe. Now that hop extracts are available in homebrew-friendly unit sizes he was suggesting using some of that for the early hop additions. Idea was to cut down on the amount of vegetable matter in the kettle, and on the amount of wort lost to absorption.

(Hmm. MoreBeer had the stuff, but apparently not anymore.)


You might look into using NorthernBrewer's Hopshot. It has 50 ibus in the syringe they sell it in.

http://www.northernb...lt/hopshot.html

HopShot is CO2-extracted hop resin that can be used for bittering or late additions to boiling wort — treat it just like leaf or pellet hops added during the boil. The HopShot syringe contains 5 milliliters of extract. One milliliter of HopShot yields approximately 10 IBUs in 5 gallons of 1.050 wort when boiled for 60 minutes. Test batches indicate that this bitterness may be slightly less agressive on the palate than your average hop addition.

#12 ColdAssHonky

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 10:53 AM

You might look into using NorthernBrewer's Hopshot. It has 50 ibus in the syringe they sell it in.

http://www.northernb...lt/hopshot.html

HopShot is CO2-extracted hop resin that can be used for bittering or late additions to boiling wort — treat it just like leaf or pellet hops added during the boil. The HopShot syringe contains 5 milliliters of extract. One milliliter of HopShot yields approximately 10 IBUs in 5 gallons of 1.050 wort when boiled for 60 minutes. Test batches indicate that this bitterness may be slightly less agressive on the palate than your average hop addition.


I've used the HopShot twice for bittering additions and I does pretty much what they say. I couldn't really pin down it's flavor characteristics since I also used whole hops. I sampled a tiny bit of the resin before adding it to the kettle and couldn't taste anything for a couple minutes afterward.

#13 passlaku

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 11:12 AM

I have had it on tap and in the bottle.

IMO it is too harsh in the bitterness department. Not too bitter, but the character of the bitterness was too sharp or aggressive. For somewhat of a reference, I will say the same thing (but to a lesser degree) about SN Torpedo. (sorry basser) Just too much attacking almost buring bitterness in these beers. I assume it is from the high AA hops used.

Do not get me wrong, I like IPAs very much. I have made the JPA and an Imperial JPA. A local pub has a IPA festival that I go to and love the beers. Today I brewed an doubler American IPA, using 10 oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch. So I am not a hop wuss.

Pliny is a very popular beer and many people disagree with me. I like bitter flavor, however, Pliny has a bitter bite I do not enjoy.

If you want to try the ultimate in bitterness, this would be it.

There is a Pliny clone in Jamilz's recipe book. His has warrior & chinook for the 90 minute additions. The recipe above appears to substitute columbus. Perhaps a concession to the reality of hops varieties available to home brewers? I think of columbus as a less agressive hop than warrior and chinook, I would expect the zymurgy recipe to have less of a bite. It will still be be plenty bitter.

zymot


I wonder if the switch from chinook to CTZ addresses the criticisms that you pose? Chinook is a really harsh hop and it seems like using Columbus would downplay that harshness.

#14 zymot

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 03:06 PM

I wonder if the switch from chinook to CTZ addresses the criticisms that you pose? Chinook is a really harsh hop and it seems like using Columbus would downplay that harshness.


Just by accident, I ran across this:

At the Bistro IPA Festival next Saturday, August 8, Russian River Brewing will debut their latest beer: The Hopfather. The Hopfather is a 7% IPA that’s loosely based on an IPA recipe Vinnie Cilurzo contributed to Sam Calagione’s book Extreme Brewing, though Cilurzo says he’s changed things up considerably. It starts with CTZ and Magnum hops, but uses primarily Amarillo and Centennial for flavor and aroma to the tune of around 10 pounds per barrel. While Vinnie assures me it will have a big malt backbone, he also promises the flavors and aroma will be “balls to the wall hops.” As if you needed another reason to go to the Bistro IPA Festival, this should make your attendance all but mandatory if you love hops.

Source Article

Any No Cal homebrewers going to this? I am. The Bistro puts on a great festival. If you like hops, this is heaven.

This is how the Double AIPA I brewed this weekend came out. I used Amarillo, Centennials + Mt Hood for the late editions. I used Santiam + Magnum for the FWH & 60 minute additions. The Santiam was inspired by the now classic JPA. I am convinced that a big chunk of the magic of the JPA is using Norther Brewer for bittering hops. Something about the noble spicy bittering against the American citrus hops flavor and aroma additions, make it sing.

zymot

#15 zymot

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 10:45 AM

I went to the above IPA festival. >60 IPAs to choose from. I selected 10 most likely condidates. I got hop overload.

One of the first I tried was the Hopfather. Without hesitation, I reccomend the hopfather of the pliny. More hop flavor less hop bitterness.

I would compare these to an Indian curry. Some curry are spicy and tasty. Some curry is so hot you do not taste curry, just hot.

If you are a hop head, go hopfather. If you are bitterhead, pliny is the beer for you.

[edit] I just read that the hopfather won the people's choice award as favorite IPA.

Edited by zymot, 09 August 2009 - 10:47 AM.



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