14 replies to this topic

[neddles]

I'm thinking about making a small batch of melomel with mixed berries grown right here by us and have a few questions for some of the more experienced mead makers around here. Here is what I have on hand, or, will soon have on hand...

 

3# homegrown Evans cherries (tart and wonderful, stemmed but not pitted)

8# wild raspberries

1# or more of mixed wild and homegrown blueberries

-a seemingly inexhaustible supply of wild blackberries that are not yet ripe. As much as 10# would not be beyond my ability to pick. 

-however much local apiary wildflower honey (mostly clover and alfalfa) as I will need. 

 

For the sake of it I would like to stick with fruit grown here on our property for this batch. As such I think this will require the batch to be small ~3ish gallons to take full advantage of the fruit and give the mel. an intense fruit character. I am familiar with the fruit in primary vs. secondary arguments and would probably do most of the fruit in primary in a large fruit strainer bag and perhaps save several pounds of raspberries and/or blackberries for the secondary. I am looking for any advice or guidance on the following things.

 

1. A proper OG/FG to shoot for to balance the acidity these fruits will bring to the party.

 

2. Any advice regarding the use of raspberries and especially blackberries in a fermentation. I have read, more than once, that the seeds can bring some unwanted astringency to the mead. Is anyone here familiar with that? Any advice here?

 

3. Related to #2, how many pounds of blackberries and pounds of total fruit would you recommend for what size batch? Schramm's pound/5gal. recommendations appear to be all for fruit in the secondary. 

 

4. Should I resist the temptation to put a small portion of Knudsen's Just Black Current in this? It tastes so good and certainly would add to the medley. But I didn't grow it.

 

5. Anything else you want to add is always welcome. Thanks.

 

 

 

[ScottS]

1) I ferment to dryness/yeast exhaustion and then backsweeten. That way I don't have to worry about guessing wrong.2) Never had a problem with raspberry seeds. Never made a blackberry mel.3) I aim for a minimum of 3 lbs per gallon. 4 or 5 is better, but that starts to take up a lot of space in the carboy.4) It's going to be fantastic without it. :frank:5) Make sure to crush the blueberries. If you leave them whole, you'll get color and acid out of them but no flavor. Freeze all of the fruit, then thaw right before using it. It'll be a juicy, gloppy mess. Perfect!

[Genesee Ted]

That is really good advice Scott.  I was going to say, the OG/FG shouldn't matter all that much for balancing the acidity, just make your adjustments to the pH like you would for any mead.  

 

Why do you want to do the fruit in the primary? 

[MyaCullen]

That is really good advice Scott.  I was going to say, the OG/FG shouldn't matter all that much for balancing the acidity, just make your adjustments to the pH like you would for any mead.  

 

Why do you want to do the fruit in the primary? 

there have been some studies showing the best all around flavor comes from splitting the fruit between primary and secondary, all the fruit in one ot the other creates a one dimensional result

[Genesee Ted]

Interesting, I haven't read those.  

[ScottS]

Interesting, I haven't read those.

I haven't either. I've always done lots of fruit in the secondary, and I've been very happy with the result.

[MyaCullen]

Interesting, I haven't read those.  

overstated myself when I said studies sorry, it was a blind tasting done by the Brewing Network on melomels fermented by three different methods

 

1.  Ferment honey alone, add fruit after stabilizing and macerate, then backsweeten and bottle

2.  Ferment honey with 1/2 of the fruit in primary, 1/2 in secondary, then stabilize backsweeten and bottle

3.  Ferment honey with all of fruit in primary, backsweeten and bottle

 

2 was chosen in the blind tasting by everyone involved as their favorite

 

1 was chosen as 2nd

3 was chosen 3rd

[MtnBrewer]

What about adding fruit before stabilizing? That's what I do.

[MyaCullen]

What about adding fruit before stabilizing? That's what I do.

I may have remembered 1 wrong, but the point was that 1 was where the fruit was unfermented. just flavoring 

[MtnBrewer]

It definitely gets fermented the way I do it.

[MyaCullen]

It definitely gets fermented the way I do it.

so, all to secondary, that may have been option 1 :coverseyes: I am trying to recall it exactly from memory

 

I do remember the conclusion was that splitting the fruit up resulted in a mel that had more "depth" IIRC

 

I have been using the same technique on fruit wines for a couple of years and agree with the conclusion, doesn't mean everyone will

 

edit to add, it was here that I remember finding a link to it too, when we had this same discussion 

Edited by Mean_Mic, 05 August 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[ScottS]

What about adding fruit before stabilizing? That's what I do.

It definitely gets fermented the way I do it.

Same here. The yeast always perks up to chew through some of the fruit sugars.

[neddles]

overstated myself when I said studies sorry, it was a blind tasting done by the Brewing Network on melomels fermented by three different methods

 

1.  Ferment honey alone, add fruit after stabilizing and macerate, then backsweeten and bottle

2.  Ferment honey with 1/2 of the fruit in primary, 1/2 in secondary, then stabilize backsweeten and bottle

3.  Ferment honey with all of fruit in primary, backsweeten and bottle

 

2 was chosen in the blind tasting by everyone involved as their favorite

 

1 was chosen as 2nd

3 was chosen 3rd

This is where I heard it and where I got the idea to do it that way. I think it was actually Basic Brewing Radio and not Brewing Network if anyone wants to go back and listen to it. The mead that used fruit in both primary and secondary was the hands down winner.

 

There are plenty of accomplished mead makers that have been successful with fruit in primary and many others with fruit in secondary. I have tried both and been happy with the results either way so I thought I would try both on this recipe.

 

I can't recall where I read it but I remember reading that over the years Ken Schramm has actually come to like his Cherry mels better when fermented in the primary. I'll see if I can find it. Thought that was interesting.

 

I was going to say, the OG/FG shouldn't matter all that much for balancing the acidity, just make your adjustments to the pH like you would for any mead.

I guess my thinking was that these fruits would bring plenty of tartness and and some tannin and not necessarily a lower pH. Does that make sense? So I am looking for a rough FG to shoot for (when adjusting my OG) so I don't end up with a 1.002 mead that is bracingly tart and tannic, or conversely a 1.045 mead that bears a strong resemblance to something I'd put on my pancakes.

 

I have not had to worry about pH in meads that have fruit in the primary but when I make a traditional (as you would before adding fruit in the secondary) I have to add potassium bicarbonate to keep it from dropping too low. This is a known advantage to doing fruit in the primary.

[neddles]

BTW for anyone interested I found some good info on Blackberries in this old thread from EWW and Hightest. Crap, probably going to need to keep them to a minimum or leave them out because I have a "possible" sensitivity to salicylate. 

 

https://www.brews-br...ackberry-cyser/

[eldernerd]

BTW for anyone interested I found some good info on Blackberries in this old thread from EWW and Hightest. Crap, probably going to need to keep them to a minimum or leave them out because I have a "possible" sensitivity to salicylate. 

 

https://www.brews-br...ackberry-cyser/

Possible...Really. maybe you should get a real Dr. one that thinks being a Vegan is a good type of doctor. Every medication you take has a side effect. I'm a Certified Pharmacy Tech so I do know.  I no longer eat or use anything without understanding all the information available on it. Meat is poision , Dairy will kill you, For years I was the avg american steak and eggs guy. I had High blood pressure and was taking pills to keep from exploding. its been 1 year now and  I'm off all meds with normal blood pressure. You are what you eat. garbage in equals garbage . period. The stuff they put in our food in the US is mostly outlawed in europe. pink slime, well MD.s says they stopped but its meats scraps centerfiguged with ammonia to render any meat left on the fat. yummy!  baby carrots are scraps of carrots washed in clorine or a like antimocrobile and then pressed into baby carrot shapes..

Stay away from fake food and enjoy the real stuff... oh and live a lot longer too! 

I'm picking Blackberries tomorrow

The bottom line is if you eat pure food you could eat all the blackberries you want, fermented or plain.