140 replies to this topic

[HVB]

And I agree with this movement.

I agree too.  I have noticed that as I tweak recipes the crystal malt is the first grain I attack.  It just suits my tastes better.

[Humperdink]

And I agree with this movement.

I've been on this train for some time too. I quit drinking IPAs for a while because so many breweries were balancing hops with crystal and it made them undrinkable to me. I want malty, but not crystal sweetness. I love some vienna in there though. 

[denny]

And I agree with this movement.

 

And I disagree.  What's wrong with crystal in those styles?  Not only does it enhance the beer, it's part of the definition of the style.

[denny]

All of this begs the question as to why people add crystal to a beer, especially a pale ale.  Do people add crystal just because they want the color?  Do they add it for the flavor and carmelly notes you get?  Do they do it to lower mash pH, etc?  Is it because they just assume that a pale ale needs to be "amber"?  Is it to offset an aggressive use of hops?  I admit to using less and less crystal these days but also using a wider variety of crystal like C20 and C40 which I have not used much of in the past.

 

Flavor first, color second for me.  A pale ale NEEDS crystal malt!

[denny]

I've been on this train for some time too. I quit drinking IPAs for a while because so many breweries were balancing hops with crystal and it made them undrinkable to me. I want malty, but not crystal sweetness. I love some vienna in there though. 

 

Then what you object to is the overuse, not the use, of crystal, isn't it?

[cavman]

And I disagree.  What's wrong with crystal in those styles?  Not only does it enhance the beer, it's part of the definition of the style.

I am just not a fan of crystal and barely ever use any.

[positiveContact]

And I disagree.  What's wrong with crystal in those styles?  Not only does it enhance the beer, it's part of the definition of the style.

 

I'm with you denny.  I can appreciate a pale ale made many different ways but I think I'd likely prefer it with at least some crystal in there.

[positiveContact]

I agree too.  I have noticed that as I tweak recipes the crystal malt is the first grain I attack.  It just suits my tastes better.

 

so you are saying I shouldn't bring you some denny's RIPA when we meet up?  2.5lbs of crystal per 10 gallons! 

[positiveContact]

to add to my OP:  by simple I'm kind of talking the grain bill.  i get that the most basic/classic apa is 2-row and some crystal.  but i guess i was more thinking flavor complexity.  a pale ale that is essentially just base malt and not higher gravity (cavman gave me an IPA with no crystal that I really liked but I believe this to be the case b/c it was a higher OG) I would have to predict to be a little too boring for my tastes.

[Humperdink]

Then what you object to is the overuse, not the use, of crystal, isn't it?

I'd agree, but when it comes to the option of having almost every example be overused or not using any, I'm happy to go with the latter. I don't mind just a smidge in there, but that's really not the case in the vast majority of them, case in point Rogue. 

[HVB]

so you are saying I shouldn't bring you some denny's RIPA when we meet up?  2.5lbs of crystal per 10 gallons! 

I would not say that.  I like the RIPA.  I think teh rye helps cut the crystal but that is me.

 

I guess I should not bring my Pale ale with only 5% of the malt bill being caravienne though

Edited by drez77, 13 September 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[positiveContact]

I would not say that.  I like the RIPA.  I think teh rye helps cut the crystal but that is me.

 

I guess I should not bring my Pale ale with only 5% of the malt bill being caravienne though

 

no - you should.  gimme!

[HVB]

no - you should.  gimme!

I just looked .. it is 3.8% not 5% ..

Edited by drez77, 13 September 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[positiveContact]

I just looked .. it is 3.8% not 5% ..

 

well in that case no way!  j/k.  I'd love to try it out.

[MakeMeHoppy]

My simpliest regular brew is a true SMASH  with just pale and columbus.  Other than that I use a some crystal 4-8 ounces and I like up to a pound of wheat for the body and head retention. Once I got the SMASH to taste the same three times in a row I make my house pale ale a little different each time.

[denny]

I am just not a fan of crystal and barely ever use any.

 

What is it you don't like about crystal?  ANY crystal?  From carapils to Special B?

[denny]

I'd agree, but when it comes to the option of having almost every example be overused or not using any, I'm happy to go with the latter. I don't mind just a smidge in there, but that's really not the case in the vast majority of them, case in point Rogue. 

 

I really like a lot of Rogue's beers and find that the crystal is usually pretty well balanced.  But we're talking your own beer here.  Why not use it correctly to enhance your beer's flavor?

[neddles]

Perhaps a lot of the commercial examples people are tasting have been in the bottle too long and they are getting some of that caramelly-oxidized flavor that never goes great with aging hops. 

[Humperdink]

I really like a lot of Rogue's beers and find that the crystal is usually pretty well balanced.  But we're talking your own beer here.  Why not use it correctly to enhance your beer's flavor?

And I have, just generally in very low amounts in APA and IPA and generally none at all. I prefer a Vienna style malt to crystal. It has its place in reds etc, but that wasn't the style I was trying to speak to.

[chadm75]

I brewed a Rye IPA earlier this Summer.90% Pale Ale Malt10% Rye FlakesColumbus and Cascades throughout. About as easy as it gets....